The Difference From A 40s DB Suit Between A 30s DB

[guitarmasta12]

So I'm wondering what the key differences between a 40s DB and 30s DB. I mean I really cant tell them apart and I noticed the 50s DB's are slimmer in the lapels a little. Or at least the ones I have seen. Back on 40s and 30s. So I have a DB tux I think is 40s but I really can tell for certain between the two decades. I do know that some30s pants have buttons opposed to zippers but there is zippers in the 30s too. The pants are similar between the decades and I know how to tell them apart from zippers or how you close up the pants via zipper or buttons. This question is focusing on the jacket differences. Experts please do tell me the differences between the decades with just the jackets if there is any.

 

[Mathematicus]

Dating a jacket only by style can be difficult. Loosely speaking, earlier examples have higher button stance and a closer cut in the torso; more often they are slightly shorter than usual.
The true differences can be seen in cut, especially in shoulder construction; I'll better leave explanations to more expert than me, but soft shoulders seem to be popular among 1930s, with some wadding at the sleevehead. Sometimes there is shirring, little creases created at the sleevehead cutting a fuller sleeve into a small armhole. In the following decade, shoulders become stronger and stronger; the padding is substantial. No more shirring.
Another part to be inspected is the shoulder seam: earlier examples have often a slanted shoulder seam, while late 40s have mostly parallel seam. As far as I experienced, more the seam is slanted, older the coat should be.

 

[PeterB]

This is an interesting question. We have to keep in mind that just as shops in the 80s were still selling 70s styles up until the mid 80s (flares, etc), at least they were in my home town, it is likely that 40s styles were being worn by people into the early 50ss. I think the best source might be the Sears catalogue scans that people have put up on this forum. Sears could be described as fairly main stream, in terms of styles, and so might be taken as the "standard", in terms of cut -- at least for North American styles. I believe, though don't quote me on this, that British styles changed less from the late 40s to early 50s, and because of rationing until the early 50s, manufacturers may have had to use less cloth, thus narrower trousers and lapels than what Americans were using.

 

[guitarmasta12]

Dating a jacket only by style can be difficult. Loosely speaking, earlier examples have higher button stance and a closer cut in the torso; more often they are slightly shorter than usual.
The true differences can be seen in cut, especially in shoulder construction; I'll better leave explanations to more expert than me, but soft shoulders seem to be popular among 1930s, with some wadding at the sleevehead. Sometimes there is shirring, little creases created at the sleevehead cutting a fuller sleeve into a small armhole. In the following decade, shoulders become stronger and stronger; the padding is substantial. No more shirring.
Another part to be inspected is the shoulder seam: earlier examples have often a slanted shoulder seam, while late 40s have mostly parallel seam. As far as I experienced, more the seam is slanted, older the coat should be.

You have some good tips. Now I'm gonna look at my DB tux further. Its very tight in the arm holes showing the perfect taper on me. I have seen examples more so in 1940s movies with that look and it is safe to say the decades do bleed into each other.

 

[guitarmasta12]

This is an interesting question. We have to keep in mind that just as shops in the 80s were still selling 70s styles up until the mid 80s (flares, etc), at least they were in my home town, it is likely that 40s styles were being worn by people into the early 50ss. I think the best source might be the Sears catalogue scans that people have put up on this forum. Sears could be described as fairly main stream, in terms of styles, and so might be taken as the "standard", in terms of cut -- at least for North American styles. I believe, though don't quote me on this, that British styles changed less from the late 40s to early 50s, and because of rationing until the early 50s, manufacturers may have had to use less cloth, thus narrower trousers and lapels than what Americans were using.

True statement my friend.

 

[Luis]

So does a slanted shoulder seam create that "T" look, the superman look as was the style? Shoulders extending just a bit past the natural line and taper down to the waist to give it that look?
I have seen some that have really big measurements as far as shoulder seam to shoulder seam, and I have seen some suit jackets on the small end of the measurements.
Small end being 17" and large end being 20", talking about maybe a 38,40,42 range on the suit jacket.

 

[de Stokesay]

I expect others have noticed the phenomenon too, but but seems to me that significant changes tend to,occur mid-decade, rather than at the beginning. Think about it, there is little difference between what we think of as '30s styles until the mid forties. Ok, you say, there was this war that held things up. Well how do you explain "fifties" styles and cuts hanging on in the mainstream until. 1964 or 1965', or "sixties"styles being what everyone wore until 1974 or so, and "seventies" styles being popular well into the early-mid eighties. You get the idea. This phenomena might be what is confusing you Guitarmasta 12.

de Stokesay

 

[herringbonekid]

So does a slanted shoulder seam create that "T" look, the superman look as was the style? Shoulders extending just a bit past the natural line and taper down to the waist to give it that look?

no, a 'slanted shoulder seam' refers to one which angles back as oppose to running straight across the top of the shoulder. they were a hang-on from the Victorian period (when the back-sloping angle was more extreme) and fizzled out by the early 30s. they look like this:

what effects the 'T' look is the width of the shoulders and the amount of padding, nothing to do with the shoulder seam placement.

 

[Luis]

no, a 'slanted shoulder seam' refers to one which angles back as oppose to running straight across the top of the shoulder. they were a hang-on from the Victorian period (when the back-sloping angle was more extreme) and fizzled out by the early 30s. they look like this:

what effects the 'T' look is the width of the shoulders and the amount of padding, nothing to do with the shoulder seam placement.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[Luis]

At some point was the style to have the shoulders a bit hanging off the natural lines or no?

 

[Claudio]

I'm prettysure the only time shoulders did hang on the natural shoulder line would be teens into twenties; and then in the mid 60's and then now ... 30's to the early 60's shoulders were easily past the narutal line but with varying paddings, not to mention 80's and 90's

 

[herringbonekid]

At some point was the style to have the shoulders a bit hanging off the natural lines or no?

most shoulders on jackets are extended to some degree (apart from some of the late teens - early 20s ones as Claudio already mentioned).

this is a shoulder (early 30s) with very little extension, moderate padding and quite a full sleevehead:

this is a very extended shoulder with lots of padding (early 40s):

 

[Luis]

most shoulders on jackets are extended to some degree (apart from some of the late teens - early 20s ones as Claudio already mentioned).

this is a shoulder (early 30s) with very little extension, moderate padding and quite a full sleevehead:

this is a very extended shoulder with lots of padding (early 40s):

What a great suit!!!

but also depends on the body type how much padding you can handle right? Or can it be personal preference and what era one is going for?

 

[Mathematicus]

I think the appearance of very extended and padded shoulders (typical of 40s and early 50s style) can look very good if the coat is made at the best. The couple strong shoulders - low(ish) armhole is the worst you can have, indeed. Besides, in the past often the wadding was placed only at the shoulder edges, when the sleeve is attached; nowadays every ready-made suit (and most part of those cut by modern tailor) shoulders are padded through the entire line, also the wanna-be "natural shoulder" pieces. This feature make them, I think, very artificial and somewhat stiff looking.

Regarding the body type, I think that 1930s style padding looks good on everyone, while a more structured shoulder can be too much for people with square and wide shoulders.

 

[herringbonekid]

i agree Maths.

while wide shoulders are acceptable as part of an overall period-correct 1940s 'bold' look i think they are generally a difficult feature to pull off today without looking too 'power dressed', which is why the younger generation of bespoke dudes - who are attempting to make the suit a natural, easy to wear garment - have ditched the wide padded shoulder entirely (that, and the 1980s connotations that wide shoulders have).

 

[Luis]

i agree Maths.

while wide shoulders are acceptable as part of an overall period-correct 1940s 'bold' look i think they are generally a difficult feature to pull off today without looking too 'power dressed', which is why the younger generation of bespoke dudes - who are attempting to make the suit a natural, easy to wear garment - have ditched the wide padded shoulder entirely (that, and the 1980s connotations that wide shoulders have).

You hit it right on the money. I think the younger gen is scared of the "power dressed" look, but it takes some confidence and if you got the accessories down you will not look from the 80's.

Double breast is my favorite.