The devolution of our society through fashion in just two pictures.

[rue]

I guess I'm not seeing his butt like everyone else... All I see is a guy in a T-shirt dress and a pair of pants around his knees...

I wish I would have placed money on you making an opposing comment PB lol

No ... but the zoot suits were worn to equally exaggerated extremes. The shoulders were outlandishly wide; the jackets were like corsets around the waist; the trousers were practically up to the wearer's chest; the trouser legs had thighs which billowed like balloons, and cuffs so tapered and narrow that they sometimes had zippers for the wearer to be able to get his feet through them.


After World War II began, some people began to react very negatively to the zoot suit, claiming that it was a sign of gang criminality as well as being ugly (and sexually suggestive, of all things).

Sexually suggestive?? My how things have changed....

 

[Feraud]

But Marc, is there any chance that zoot zuits had been worn in such a manner to have one's "Heine" hanging out, pants half to the floor? I am not myself thinking that baggy clothing is horrible looking itself, but the manner of the pants being open like the trunk of a 1956 caddy, by hanging half to the floor!

The comparison to the Zoot Suit is not to say they were worn in a similar manner but the reaction is the same.

 

[Feraud]

Sexually suggestive?? My how things have changed....

Yet they've stayed exactly the same..

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The comparison to the Zoot Suit is not to say they were worn in a similar manner but the reaction is the same.

Exactly. In fact, the reaction was worse: it helped to fuel the Zoot Suit Riot.

 

[rue]

Yet they've stayed exactly the same..

touche :fencing:

 

[Feraud]

After World War II began, some people began to react very negatively to the zoot suit, claiming that it was a sign of gang criminality as well as being ugly (and sexually suggestive, of all things).

It is no coincidence that a few comments about the guy wearing the pants around his ankles assumes he would have a hard time running from the cops.
Why would he need to run from cops? Speaking in practicalities a guy wearing a fedora would have an equally hard time. He'd need one hand to hold his hat on his head..

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Sexually suggestive?? My how things have changed....

Sexually suggestive in the sense that it had he-man proportions: huge shoulders and chest, tapered waist, 'roomy' crotch, and massive thighs. In other words, Charles Atlas in wool.


(The "English Drape" suit moved in this direction, but the zoot suit ran amok with it!)

 

[fortworthgal]

I just wish I could un-see the red shirt picture.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I just wish I could un-see the red shirt picture.

Isn't there a saying? "You cannot un-see the dragon."

 

[Dan'l]

It is no coincidence that a few comments about the guy wearing the pants around his ankles assumes he would have a hard time running from the cops.
Why would he need to run from cops? Speaking in practicalities a guy wearing a fedora would have an equally hard time. He'd need one hand to hold his hat on his head..

:arated: Feraud, you are often the voice of reason in several different threads I've read.

Maybe his pants are down to his knees because of that big water bottle in his back pocket.

 

[LizzieMaine]

After World War II began, some people began to react very negatively to the zoot suit, claiming that it was a sign of gang criminality as well as being ugly (and sexually suggestive, of all things).

To say nothing of the fact that they flaunted in the face of clothes-rationing restrictions, and their manufacture was illegal after the issuance of WPB Order L-85 in March of 1942. Seeing someone prancing around in such attire when you couldn't even get cuffs on a new pair of pants or a pleated skirt might well generate a bit of resentment.

 

[scottyrocks]

What bothers me most about the waistband at the knees look is what it is emulating.

When people go to prison, certain things are taken from them that could be used as weapons - belts, shoelaces, etc. The low hanging pants are an emulation of prisoners who have nothing to keep their pants up, never mind that prisoners often wear jumpsuits. That was the reason for the laceless sneakers that originated about the same time. How many boppers today think that reason they are wearing laceless sneakers is so that they would be less able to garrot someone?

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

And the original purpose of the baggy pants was to hide weapons.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

To say nothing of the fact that they flaunted in the face of clothes-rationing restrictions, and their manufacture was illegal after the issuance of WPB Order L-85 in March of 1942. Seeing someone prancing around in such attire when you couldn't even get cuffs on a new pair of pants or a pleated skirt might well generate a bit of resentment.

That's 100% true ... and resentment was greatest among servicemen, who had to conform and wear decidedly un-zoot uniforms, and who didn't appreciate the anti-establishment, anti-rationing message broadcast by zoot suits.


At the time, it was noted that Caucasian war industry workers, with new money flowing into their long-empty Depression pockets, were avid adopters of zoot suits, wearing them to 24-hour dance halls and bars between their shifts. (How did they have the energy?) Young Caucasian men all around the country ordered zoot suits (or altered large "normal" suits to make them look zoot) to dress like their favorite swing singers and band musicians.


During the Los Angeles Zoot Suit Riot, not one case was reported of servicemen or civilians beating up the zoot-wearing Caucasians ... and yet, dozens of Blacks and Latinos (including military conscripts) were targeted, even though the evidence shows that most of them were not wearing zoot suits.


Interestingly, before the Zoot Suit Riot, WPB Order L-85 was flouted with impunity by zoot suit manufacturers, which tended to be "made to order / made to measure" tailoring businesses. Apparently, fines and arrests were extremely rare until after the Riot.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

... prisoners who have nothing to keep their pants up ...

Why aren't prisoners issued pants with elastic waistbands?

 

[Edward]

Hi Edward, looked it up

Greyhound Skirt

Very short skirt, that is, as in greyhound racing it is only an inch away from the hair.

She left for the bar that night with her greyhound skirt on, sure to get some much needed attention from the guys.

Love the description, wish I'd have thought of it myself, but then I don't get out much.

later

Oh. Ohhhh. Oh, my.

Yes, I get it now!

I agree- but change this to hip-hop dressed women (and some men too, but more often women). I get far more compliments from hip hopper strangers than any other group of strangers (if we are separating strangers by type of dress). I often get told I look so nice, like I am going to church, particularly by young ladies (around high school age).

I figure that at least with the baggy pants, the people are wearing real pants and not pajamas. Right?

Ha. And at least they're wearing sensible underwear too.

Hip hop casual wear is today's version of the zoot suit, and garners the same reaction from certain folks.

Very true.

It is no coincidence that a few comments about the guy wearing the pants around his ankles assumes he would have a hard time running from the cops.
Why would he need to run from cops? Speaking in practicalities a guy wearing a fedora would have an equally hard time. He'd need one hand to hold his hat on his head..

I'd like to hope it was a stereotype about hip hop, rather than the other obvious option which is reminiscent of the distasteful "immigration status" comments made in another thread.

What bothers me most about the waistband at the knees look is what it is emulating.

When people go to prison, certain things are taken from them that could be used as weapons - belts, shoelaces, etc. The low hanging pants are an emulation of prisoners who have nothing to keep their pants up, never mind that prisoners often wear jumpsuits. That was the reason for the laceless sneakers that originated about the same time. How many boppers today think that reason they are wearing laceless sneakers is so that they would be less able to garrot someone?

I'm in two minds about this. I do think it's a bit in poor taste to celebrate criminality via the medium of one's clothing, but then I don't think we can make the assumption that these kids are doing that. At some point, whatever the origin of that way of wearing trousers and all subjective opinions aside, it becomes simply a way to wear them for many, naught more than a fashion statement. An equivalent, if you like, of the undone bottom button on a waistcoat.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I do think it's a bit in poor taste to celebrate criminality via the medium of one's clothing, ...

I agree ... and I find it ironic that many of my vintage customers ask me for (in their words) "gangster / mafia" outfits: double-breasted, pinstriped suits; fedoras; black & white spectator shoes. I tell them that I don't condone the affectation of criminality, even when it's 80 years old. There are still people living who suffered at the hands of those "gangster / mafia" lowlifes.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I agree ... and I find it ironic that many of my vintage customers ask me for (in their words) "gangster / mafia" outfits: double-breasted, pinstriped suits; fedoras; black & white spectator shoes. I tell them that I don't condone the affectation of criminality, even when it's 80 years old. There are still people living who suffered at the hands of those "gangster / mafia" lowlifes.

That's what frustrates me. Every time I do a search for a "1920s suit" all that comes up is the "gangster" suit.

 

[Edward]

I agree ... and I find it ironic that many of my vintage customers ask me for (in their words) "gangster / mafia" outfits: double-breasted, pinstriped suits; fedoras; black & white spectator shoes. I tell them that I don't condone the affectation of criminality, even when it's 80 years old. There are still people living who suffered at the hands of those "gangster / mafia" lowlifes.

Well, yes... lots of things get romanticised by distance in time. I don't mind being told I look like a gangster - let's face it, Capone and those boys dressed sharp - but that said it's one thing dressing well, as coincidentally some people did in a certain area, irrespective of who they were and what they did, and quite another to dress to deliberately emulate an especially unpleasant individual of any sort when it starts to cross the boundary into something approaching hero worship.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

That's what frustrates me. Every time I do a search for a "1920s suit" all that comes up is the "gangster" suit.

It frustrates me too. I can (barely) stomach Dillinger and Bonnie & Clyde, but have no taste for Bugs Moran -- the man who brought us drive-by shootings:


"One possibly apocryphal story relates that [Moran] first attained the name [Bugs, meaning 'crazy'] after arriving at a tailor shop to pick up a suit he had ordered. When told the price of the finished suit, he became enraged and left the shop after breaking the tailor's arms and legs."