The Denim Thread: Questions & Answers, Pics & Fits

[majormajor]

Hi Schitzo.

I still remember, back in 1966, when the only thing for any self-respecting Mod to wear was a pair of Levi's. (my apologies to non-UK FLers who possibly won't know what I'm talking about)....

Trouble was, living in the North of England, we couldn't buy 'em....London, yes. Elsewhere, no chance.

But then, a place in Sheffield started selling them. It was a bit of a treck on the bus or train, but we managed it. One of the first Soul clubs, Pete Stringfellow's Mojo club was down there too, so the trip was well worth it.

So soon all the "in crowd" in town had a pair of brand new Levi's. 49 shillings and 11 pence well spent. And boy, did they look dark blue and new. Some of the guys were so eager to wear them, they were donned unwashed, so not only stiff and new, but too big aswell.

We were all desperate to have worn faded jeans, so much washing and scrubbing ensued. I was lucky, because my dear old Mum has a clothes boiler - basically a gigantic kettle on legs that you could boil your denims in for hours. Within a month or so, excellently faded Levi's were the order of the day. And the more faded, the better! (I'm not talking about the silliness with bleach that came much later - had to be proper washing...).

A year later, H D Lee started shipping Lee Riders into the UK, and the whole thing started again!! And then there was brief flirtation with Dickies...

So, over the years, I've worn lots of 13oz new denim, although nowadays, I've got lots of worn pairs to fall back on. Do I want to start again with 23oz?? Especially when I might have to go back to 13oz stuff, because they didn't bother making any more?? I'll take a rain check........

 

[Ishmael]

majormajor, are you referring to the raw, un-sanforized version of the Iron Hearts? If so, you're probably right. I haven't seen them myself, but cardboard is probably right. But the sanforized version are really quite soft for 21oz denim, and they don't look or feel all that much stiffer than 14oz IMO.

 

[Ishmael]

Ok, majormajor, you (and others here) have peaked my interest in Lee. Thinking to give them a try. But where to start? The numbers and letters are a bit confusing to me. I think I'll have access to quite a selection here in Japan, but where to start?

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

My 21oz IronHeart was very soft when I got them and they could not stand up by themselves. No one can see they are thick until they feel them.

It does take some getting used to, wearing jeans for a long time without washing. I used to wash my jeans after 3 days so it was hard for me in the beginning. You have to be a little more careful with the jeans so they dont get dirty. Dont dry off your mayonaise fingers on your jeans and remove spots with a wet cloth from time to time. You dont have to wear them if they start to smell, you can either put them in the freezer as to kill all the bacteria or you can just wash them. If you do decide to wash them, just try and not wash them for a long time after that. Smelly jeans is the limit for me, but if you dont use the jeans as a hankerchief (and also wear underwear) they can easily go for 6 months before they smell.

 

[injunjack]

uhhhuhh...hmm. Well, wear 6 mo without washing is some denimnerdy talk. Wear as long as you want (or short period) and wash them when you want. They're just jeans...

634S are stiff right ouf of the box, soaking them hot to get rid of excess starch is adviseable IMO. They'll soften up nicely in couple of days. And are I think the most comfiest jeans I've had. + they breath well, so they are wearable in summer as well.

634SR and 634RAW are made of 21/23oz fabric, and are raw, so shrinking will be a fact. These (if you can get them somewhere, alll fabric is spent) will need 2 super hot soaks with proper agitation or 2 cycles in washer in preferrably 60°C to get all shrinkage out.

All 3 above mentioned will bleed pretty much when new, so you'll be smurfing all your lighter stuff ;-)

Both denims have nice fading characteristics, but will be different.

here's my SR's, several washes

And I must disagree with Griff...you jeans WILL start to smell bad before 6 mo. mark.

 

[majormajor]

Double post. My apologies

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

Obviously it will depend on what the jeans will touch, and how much. Otherwise you are either calling me a liar or your saying I cant smell normally.

Wearing them at home and in the office will not make them smell as much as if you work in a barn, right? So it all depends.

 

[majormajor]

here's my SR's, several washes

All the pics of Iron Hearts looking cool are pics of the non sanforized versions - which are simply not available any more. They used all the denim!

Does anyone have any decent pics of regular 634S (sanforized), illustrating how they look after 6 months or so?

BTW, the most difficult thing to do with any new, button fly jeans is doing the frigging buttons up after taking a leak. Nothing worse than standing about in a public toilet, struggling with your crotch! Surely, 21oz is gonna make that problem much worse?? :eeek:

 

[Ishmael]

On the topic of how often to wash. You both make fine points. For Griff, it took him a while to get used to not washing your denim every time you wear it, or just for the sake of washing it. For Injunjack, the don't wash it gig can be taken too far. Agree with the both of you. Also agree with Griff's point about odor being dependent on lifestyle and personal perspiration levels. For example, people in Japan don't use deodorant cuz they don't need it. Undoubtedly they can get away w/ washing less frequently. I don't sweat much and I don't wear my denim in warm weather so I can get away w/ washing less. Point is there's a happy medium between washing too little and too much but the golden mean is a personal affair.

Majormajor, there are a lot of pics on the net of the sanforized 634s. Not as wild fades as the raw, but they still look very good. I guess my question would be how important are the fades? Where do they rank among all the different qualities you're searching for in jean? There's always going to be trade-offs. If I were looking at IH I probably wouldn't be looking for the best fades, but for durability and, in the case of the 634, brilliant cut. And again, I don't think the sanforized IH is going to be much stiffer, if any, than the raw Lees you're working with.

 

[schitzo]

anyhow, can't the soap dodgers, I mean denimistas, simply dry clean them from time to time without disturbing the fades? Personally, as a bone idle male, part of the attraction for me is not having to do anything with them for much longer periods. Granted, I don't wanna smell or be unhygienic but since my legs are unlikely to sweat in these winter months that are now upon us, and if i take care to always remember mother's advice about wearing clean underwear every day, I'll surely be OK, no? For me, the 23oz Lees I've just landed are an experiment, that I'm going into with an open mind

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

For me, dry cleaning would be taking it too far. I just use them as long as I can and then wash. It all depends on whats happening. One pair went for longer then a year without any smell but I didnt do much in them (was in school) another pair started smelling very fast so in the washer they went. I also had a black pair (coated that developes shine) and had to help a friend whos car got stuck in the mud so they had to be washed kinda quick.

Another pair got babypuke on the so they also went in the washer.

I say just use them and wash them when too dirty or if they start to smell.

The whole point of this to mee is to get a personal pair, otherwise I could just get prefaded jeans. To get them personal you have to wear them and not wash to often. The first time is important, but its not the end of the world to wash, just dont wash too often after that. (wash when dirty)

 

[Ishmael]

+1

No cancel that, I reserve the right to hold my +1 point until such time as we see pics of said Lee 23ozs.

 

[majormajor]

Majormajor, there are a lot of pics on the net of the sanforized 634s. Not as wild fades as the raw, but they still look very good. I guess my question would be how important are the fades? Where do they rank among all the different qualities you're searching for in jean? There's always going to be trade-offs. If I were looking at IH I probably wouldn't be looking for the best fades, but for durability and, in the case of the 634, brilliant cut. And again, I don't think the sanforized IH is going to be much stiffer, if any, than the raw Lees you're working with.

Hi Ishmael

This is the type of pics I see of 634S's, which look to me just like any regular jean. Nothing special about the fit (not as good as Lee), and the same fading that you get on any jeans. I honestly don't see the point of paying a higher price and going through discomfort - just to finish up with an average pair of jeans, 6 months down the line.

As I said before, just a personal view

 

[schitzo]

+1

No cancel that, I reserve the right to hold my +1 point until such time as we see pics of said Lee 23ozs.

haha I will post pics this week! I think the fit is very similar to the ones you have on in your pic with the jacket. I can totally see why meatier men might not dig this cut

 

[schitzo]

Nothing special about the fit (not as good as Lee)

]

Hello Major

In my albeit limited experience I like Lee too - definitely prefer them to Levi's. So which in your opinion are the best models for straight cut lee jeans?

 

[majormajor]

Hello Major

In my albeit limited experience I like Lee too - definitely prefer them to Levi's. So which in your opinion are the best models for straight cut lee jeans?

Hi Schitzo

The best ones I have are the 1930 and 1937 101Bs. And the 1952 101Zs are not far behind. I'll try and post some pics later

 

[Ishmael]

Yeah, from what I've seen on the Lee 101z 23 oz measurements, it actually looks very similar to my PBJ xx-003s. Might give em a try, but I still don't understand all their different numbers and letters. Here in Japan, they seem to have a lot of vintage models and collabs with Warehouse. I'll try em on at Mushmans, they've got these in stock, but I won't get these cuz they're zip fly.....

101Z OR
http://shop.mushmans.com/?pid=40833666

 

[Ishmael]

Hi Schitzo

The best ones I have are the 1930 and 1937 101Bs. And the 1952 101Zs are not far behind. I'll try and post some pics later

What makes them the best?

 

[majormajor]

What makes them the best?

Hi Ishmael.

Going right back to the Lee Riders I got in 1967, Lee have always had a very different fit to Levi's.

Lee are closer fitting around the backside, with wider, straighter legs. Compared with them, Levi's (unless you could get some older cut models) were, to put it bluntly, baggy-assed and skinny legged.

Now, I know alot of folks are happy with Levi's, and many manufacturers copy their cut. And that is cool, if that is what you want. And many kids in the UK seem to like a baggy crotch area. Again, cool if that's what you want. But it ain't for me.

Up until the 50's, Lee Riders were even wider in the leg, but still fitted much closer around the backside. If you lay a folded pair of Levi-cut jeans on a table, the seam down the rear, between the pockets, will be straight. Do the same with Lee, and there is a curve, meaning NO baggyness around the crotch.

It works for me

 

[injunjack]

I say just use them and wash them when too dirty or if they start to smell.

The whole point of this to mee is to get a personal pair, otherwise I could just get prefaded jeans. To get them personal you have to wear them and not wash to often. The first time is important, but its not the end of the world to wash, just dont wash too often after that. (wash when dirty)

I have to agree, and disagree again.

I have "washed" my raw Iron Hearts twice prior any use. First wear period on both pairs was 4 weeks I think, in rotation with other jeans. I wear jeans 1 week air them properly and rotate with 2 or three pairs. After about 3 weeks use (see not continious wear) I toss them in to the washer. That gets them personal for me.

Here's sanforized 634S 21oz. They have been used as I described and have abot 6 mo or a bit more actual wear.

and to me, it's not about the fading, these are just so good in every aspect. IMHO