The Declining Popularity of the Necktie

[Marc Chevalier]

All very true.


It's interesting that the so-called "best suit in movie history," a British number worn by Cary Grant in North by Northwest, was a prime example of the 'Mr. T' look.


.

 

[Dinerman]

Speaking of Esquire, the Mr. T look, and neckties-

 

[Solid Citizen]

TIE Friday's

Good news (at least on a limited basis)! One of our assistants at the school where I teach, has (I suppose) been influenced by me, and has made every Friday "Tie Friday." He and many 5th graders, as well as other students, sport a necktie on the day of the week, and are very let down if I don't have one on, too!

Now THAT'S an idea Solid Citizen

 

[Widebrim]

All very true.


It's interesting that the so-called "best suit in movie history," a British number worn by Cary Grant in North by Northwest, was a prime example of the 'Mr. T' look.


.

That says quite a bit about "classic style."

 

[Widebrim]

Speaking of Esquire, the Mr. T look, and neckties-

Great example, Dinerman! I'm going to guess: 3" at its widest?

 

[Widebrim]

...discussion.

I think it's worth noting that suit and ties were in many ways a time and place solution to the technology and culture of the times. We tend to not necessarily remember the past as it was. There were many men in the golden era that work work clothes to work and never went to church and rarely, if ever, work dress clothes.

If anything killed the suit and tie it may have been the massive influx of newly minted professionals via the GI bill after WWII. People (like my dad) who never had any expectation of being more than a blue collar worker had a crack at being degreed, white collar professionals.

For them, suits and ties weren't clothes, they were a costume. I'm not sure they were ever fully comfortable in them. They tended to change out of their work wear as soon as they got home to get comfortable and preserve them. When people view a clothing article like that, it's days are usually numbered.

Besides, nothing lasts forever.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that last line, but...

Anyway, interesting theory which likely applied to some. However, even before the War, blue collar workers were generally expected to wear suits when they went out in public (at least in the city). I have photos of my father (a blue collar worker all his life) wearing suits before and after the War, and I don't recall him taking off his suit as soon as he got home. (He would take off the jacket, but keep the tie on.) And may I add that the men who have stopped wearing neckties are of a different generation. As for me, I wear them more than ever, but then I'm a...Fedora Lounger.

 

[Mid-fogey]

Agree...

I'm not sure I'd agree with that last line, but...

Anyway, interesting theory which likely applied to some. However, even before the War, blue collar workers were generally expected to wear suits when they went out in public (at least in the city). I have photos of my father (a blue collar worker all his life) wearing suits before and after the War, and I don't recall him taking off his suit as soon as he got home. (He would take off the jacket, but keep the tie on.) And may I add that the men who have stopped wearing neckties are of a different generation. As for me, I wear them more than ever, but then I'm a...Fedora Lounger.

...and of course generalizations are usually problematic even in cases where they are useful. There have been many threads here on the decline of suits, ties, and dress hats. A great many factors were responsible.

My only point was that the circumstances after WWII accelerated the changes that caused people to think differently about suits, changing them from everyday wear to costumes. One might argue that the march of time always causes that to happen.

As far as everyday wear, I think there are a vast quantity of candid pictures that would make the case that blue collar workers did dress up, but usually for very specific reasons.

 

[Mid-fogey]

Another...

...thought.

Regardless of cause, what I've noticed is a shift in goals. Previously, the goal was to dress as well as possible, consistent with practicality. These days the goal seems to be to dress as informally as possible, consistent with acceptability.

The shift is that the focus before was an affirmation of communal values, traditions and norms. People were dressing to show they were members of the group and the emphasis was on others.

Now the focus is on affirmation of personal desires and the emphasis is mostly on self.

Finally, my daughter got me a new bow tie for Father's Day and I'm wearing it!

 

[Widebrim]

...thought.

Regardless of cause, what I've noticed is a shift in goals. Previously, the goal was to dress as well as possible, consistent with practicality. These days the goal seems to be to dress as informally as possible, consistent with acceptability.

The shift is that the focus before was an affirmation of communal values, traditions and norms. People were dressing to show they were members of the group and the emphasis was on others.

Now the focus is on affirmation of personal desires and the emphasis is mostly on self.

Finally, my daughter got me a new bow tie for Father's Day and I'm wearing it!

True, Mid-fogey: since the 70s(?) the emphasis has decidedly been on self. Regarding the idea of affiliation-dressing, that still exists, why else would we now see so many young men with baseball caps turned sideways and boxer shorts hanging out? And congratulations on the bow tie!

 

[Mid-fogey]

Yes, but...

True, Mid-fogey: since the 70s(?) the emphasis has decidedly been on self. Regarding the idea of affiliation-dressing, that still exists, why else would we now see so many young men with baseball caps turned sideways and boxer shorts hanging out? And congratulations on the bow tie!

...affiliation to what? Perhaps their own self-selected sub group. Rather than affirming membership, they create their own to a certain degree.

Regardless, no ties.

 

[John in Covina]

As to baseball caps backwards and the shabby dress of America's youth, two forces are at work Hero worship such as MTV video stars and then peer pressure. A good portion of the dress of American Youth is a code that reveals their preference in music and who they like as "artists" from hiphop and rap to punk, gothic, and emo then even on to country and western. A great percentage of todays youth when allow to dress as they please are indicating their choice of music and lifestyle. When was the last time somebody wore a tie on MTV?

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I wear a tie most of the time for work, don't have a problem with that at all. It was all part of the uniform at school when I was there in the late 1960s & 1970s, failure to be wearing one's tie resulted in detention having to write out an imposition of 100 lines! Rgds.

 

[martinsantos]

Maybe the problem today is to rotulate anything more formal as "wrong". I use ties everyday. And like to use one when I go to concert room, to have dinner, etc. In several occasions somebody asked me if I went the place directly from work!

I believe that ties will be less and less used - will happen to them the same that happened to hats.

 

[SGT Rocket]

I'm currently not working, but I love ties. Since I've been laid off from my regular job, I have been making it a point to wear nicer clothes (though not suites because I've gained too much weight, but, I've been loosing the weight now to try to fit into my suites again).

Has there been any articles on the use of ties and wearing nicer clothes since Mad Men has taken off?

Though I'm not working, I am going to a "commuter" university in the Twin Cities area. I haven't noticed a lot of ties, but some faculty wear them; and women tend to dress a little nicer whether or not they are faculty or student.

I try to dress business casual for class. However, thanks mainly to this site, I plan to wear suites again as soon as I can fit into them (hopefully by the end of this semester).

 

[brspiritus]

Two observations:

1) When I worked at Wal-Mart c 2004 I always wore a tie. So much so that management complained to me I was making them look bad in their "business casual" clothes. Then a young Russian lady came to work in the store. She loved my ties and my "look" and soon we started dating. After that management started wearing ties. What can be gleaned from this? Women are more in control of this fashion trend than men. When women start responding positively to men wearing ties then they will come back into fashion.

2) If I go out of the house I at least wear a shirt, tie and a hat with nice slacks and polished shoes. It shows you're mature, not afraid of bucking convention and you just never know when someone might notice you and offer you a job (ok I'm dreaming on the last one.) When I went to an open interview day at the Toyota Dealership the ad said "Dress for Success"... Apparently most applicants took that to mean dress normally and come to the interview in baggy jeans or shorts, t-shirts heck I even saw one guy in a tank top. Good greif what has the world come to?

 

[JimWagner]

Two observations:

..... When I went to an open interview day at the Toyota Dealership the ad said "Dress for Success"... Apparently most applicants took that to mean dress normally and come to the interview in baggy jeans or shorts, t-shirts heck I even saw one guy in a tank top. Good greif what has the world come to?

If I was out there looking for that job I'd be thankful for all those badly dressed people. Automatically gives you the advantage, doesn't it? Employment Darwinism.

 

[brspiritus]

Regarding the idea of affiliation-dressing, that still exists, why else would we now see so many young men with baseball caps turned sideways and boxer shorts hanging out?

Now that's all we need is some gang to adopt a tie as their "colour". Would they be the East Side Tie Terrors? perhaps the Cravat Crips?

 

[Lou]

When I went to an open interview day at the Toyota Dealership the ad said "Dress for Success"... Apparently most applicants took that to mean dress normally and come to the interview in baggy jeans or shorts, t-shirts heck I even saw one guy in a tank top. Good greif what has the world come to?

A sad commentary. Thankfully, the pendulum eventually swings the other way.

 

[brspiritus]

Well I can say I got the job, one of 12 out of 150 candidates. However after 2 weeks of class they decided to downsize the dealership and we were all fired. I'm all about living history but I'd prefer not to do a living history of the Great Depression, especially a LH I can't escape from.

 

[Cobden]

Now that's all we need is some gang to adopt a tie as their "colour". Would they be the East Side Tie Terrors? perhaps the Cravat Crips?

We have that in Britain...the most numerous one goes under the name of "The Old Etonians", and according to some they're grip is such that some of their members are the ones actually running our country