The Declining Popularity of the Necktie

[Fletch]

Wrong Mr. T, foo! lol

The "Mr. T Look" of 1950 was Esquire's tag line for a slimmed down, cooled off version of the "Bold Look" of 1948. A little less lapel, a little more cuff peg, and a gentle narrowing down of tie, hat, and color and pattern choices.

Of course, it was all too tasteful and couldn't continue. It swung right into the so-called "Ivy" look of the mid-50s-early 60s, which was elite college style redefined by the inhibitions of the newly middleclass. The narrowing continued, no longer gentle but grim and serious: black-and-white clothes for a black-and-white era.

 

[dhermann1]

I think the tie issue and the suit issue go hand in hand. I think if you go back a couple of thousand years to the late Roman Empire, you'll find a parallel discussion on the decline of the toga. The toga represented membership in the "civilized" (Greco-Roman) world. The "barbarians" (mainly the Celts) wore trousers (!). The trouser was looked upon as the quintessence of barbarism.
What today's modern suit and tie actually represent is the ascendency of English culture, via the British and American Empires. The business suit originated in the riding costume of Englishmen in the 1700's. By wearing the suit and tie you are identifying yourself as a member of this culture, whether you know it or not, and whether you want to or not. In Iran today they wear western clothes, but the tie has been stigmatized as a symbol of western imperialism. You know what? They have a point. Most of us may like ties as a statement of style, dignity, etc., etc. But the fact remains that when you war a tie you identify yourself culturally, as well.

 

[Fletch]

The suit is being somewhat freed of its associations by the growing habit of wearing it tieless.

Doing that for the tie will be trickier, especially while keeping it stylish. Tasteful and fun ties are not available to the average white collar data shuffler. Yanking a knit tie loose at the collar and stuffing the ends into a shirt over khaki pants isn't done outside of food service and catalog shoots. I may start doing it.

 

[Alucard73]

I am forced to wear a suit and tie on a daily basis. And love every minute. (Except when I am outside, like today, in a dark blue suit when it is 100 degrees outside with high humidity). But that is what AC is for. I chose a profession which would allow me to wear a suit because as I child I remember my grandfather getting up, putting on his suit and going to work. I thought that would be great. Now starch is evil...but that is for another thread.

 

[Jack R.]

I usually don't wear ties much, because I generally don't have to, on very formal occassions or at Jazz concerts I'll wear a tie, but not on a day to day basis.

 

[Widebrim]

Hatless College Knuckleheads

The author of Hatless Jack notes a hat decline in the early teens/20s due to the "younger generation" (college students I believe) straying away from hatwear.

Mr. T wore skinny ties?

Interesting observation, Feraud, on the part of the author. I would dare say, though, that once that college crowd left the ivy halls, it had to overcome its aversion to hats in order to enter the workforce and adulthood.

To tell the truth, I don't recall "Mr. T" wearing ties at all (except in one scene I remember where he is in court, wearing his Army Class As)...lol

 

[Widebrim]

Wrong Mr. T, foo! lol

The "Mr. T Look" of 1950 was Esquire's tag line for a slimmed down, cooled off version of the "Bold Look" of 1948. A little less lapel, a little more cuff peg, and a gentle narrowing down of tie, hat, and color and pattern choices.

Of course, it was all too tasteful and couldn't continue. It swung right into the so-called "Ivy" look of the mid-50s-early 60s, which was elite college style redefined by the inhibitions of the newly middleclass. The narrowing continued, no longer gentle but grim and serious: black-and-white clothes for a black-and-white era.

Very true (the latter statement, and not just about "Mr. T," fool!) The slimming down of male dress started out right, but really was a mess by the early-60s. Still, I couldn't picture Rod Serling in anything else but a grim black-and-white, ultra-slimmed down ensemble, cigarette in hand (one reason I find it hard to watch his later production, Night Gallery). lol

 

[WideBrimm]

I think there are a couple of very practical reasons for the slow demise of the tie in the office. 1) The REQUIREMENT to wear a dress shirt and TIE to work --- every day just breeds resentment. And they have to be tied just so ... only with a choke hold! No variations allowed such as tying it loose with an open button. 2) The PRICE of a new tie is just RIDICULOUS. An average of say $25 to $40 for a new tie is too much for a tie. When I was required to wear a tie to work, I never bought ties more than onece or twice a year and then only when on sale. Consequently I never had many ties to rotate. And one was expected to go with the style... wide, narrow, or medium... or be out-of-fashion What the heck. If new ties in the department stores and men's stores cost an average of $5 each, I would have bought lots of new ties and had some fun wearing different ones every day.

 

[John in Covina]

The decline

I never seem to get it right when it comes to trends. I own more ties now then I ever did that i have bought of my own accord. I have several ties that are modern Stacy Adams and a couple of geometric modern ones received as gifts. I have bought 10 or 12 bold look mid 40's type and on ties in the last couple of years because I love the colors, dynamics of the design and weave of these ties. They speak to me and I love watching some old film or early TV show and spotting a bold tie. I may not wear one every day but church and certain events, such as dining out make me just a regular peacock with one of the bold ties on. It is funny, every now and again a lady may mention my tie, but much more regularly some guy will say nice 40's tie! They ask if it is a reproduction and I tell them no it's the real deal friend, a vintage mid 40's to early 50's tie. And they usually say that's cool.

I remeber a friend saying fashion is to be a statement not a question. So much that passes as fashion appears so questionable. I find that while it is possible to wear a tie that is not in good taste or out of step in a serious way like a Christmas / Santa themed tie in July, but a tie can have a little power, punch and pizzazz that lightens up the dreary and humdrum day.

 

[Dread Scott]

Well, Lookit....

We can point to a lot of reasons for trends away from neckties or suits or even jacket and slacks.

Generally speaking - people dress to project an image, and to associate with a group. Who do people want to be like? Popular musicians (no tie, no suit), blue collar working men types (ditto), sports figures (often suit/tie, but of an excentric personal style as to be prohibitive - or no suit/tie). Also, as status symbols, they are less important than they might have once been - high status pop culture clothes often have the logo or name printed right on them, or other visual markers, easily visible in photos and on television.

I mean - look at backdrops for film or public events - especially political candidates - where once they might have been draped or otherwise styled to indicated opulence or something above the ordinary, they now have multiple repeated logos and phrases in high contrast.

A similar thing was done in the Golden Age, but with a bit more class...

If people want to associate themselves with politician-types, lawyer-types, republican-types, then they may wear neckties, even when not strictly required.

Really, the waning necktie is just part of a general trend to an agressive casualization, and it has lots of causes. The necktie-wearing has probably hit it's low threshold, and so the pendulum may wing back a little. Either way, I will wear a tie, or not wear a tie according my own standards.

 

[donCarlos]

I´m trying to wear ties as much as possible, even though everyone tells me it´s inappropriate. Of course it is, when you hardly ever see a tie worn, even by people who shall wear it! But that´s my (or our - lounger´s) style. It´s sad that the ties are worn no more, but that´s how things go. The fact nobody wears it doesn´t mean that we won´t wear it too. It will only point out our exceptionality.

 

[Edward]

I'm wearing a tie more often nowadays.... though just as often, or perhaps more often, in the office I wear a cravat. Ironically enough, the latter, though traditional a much more casual option, is regarded as being much dressier by folks in general, probably because most of them have never seen one elesewhere except for the on-screen characateur of the rich man in his study....

I do simply put it down to part of the general trend towards casualisation. Doesn't put me off wearing one myself. Generally, if other people want to go casual all the time, well, I think let them, their choice.... it only really bothers me when it's done as a deliberate statement - "look at me, look how much of a rebel I am by going uber-casual just like everyone else."

 

[Dread Scott]

As ever, Jeeves knows all.

I´m trying to wear ties as much as possible, even though everyone tells me it´s inappropriate. Of course it is, when you hardly ever see a tie worn, even by people who shall wear it! But that´s my (or our - lounger´s) style. It´s sad that the ties are worn no more, but that´s how things go. The fact nobody wears it doesn´t mean that we won´t wear it too. It will only point out our exceptionality.

``We can but wait and see, sir. The tie, if I might suggest it, sir, a shade more tightly knotted. One aims at the perfect butterfly effect. If you will permit me—''

``What do ties matter, Jeeves, at a time like this? Do you realise that Mr Little's domestic happines is hanging in the scale?''

``There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter.''
(Jeeves and the Impending Doom)

 

[Widebrim]

Good news (at least on a limited basis)! One of our assistants at the school where I teach, has (I suppose) been influenced by me, and has made every Friday "Tie Friday." He and many 5th graders, as well as other students, sport a necktie on the day of the week, and are very let down if I don't have one on, too!

 

[Ethan Bentley]

I am a frequent tie wearer and at both of my schools ties were a requirement of the uniform.

I even wear a tie on "dress-down friday", an event I don't really see the point of.

 

[Mid-fogey]

Interesting...

...discussion.

I think it's worth noting that suit and ties were in many ways a time and place solution to the technology and culture of the times. We tend to not necessarily remember the past as it was. There were many men in the golden era that work work clothes to work and never went to church and rarely, if ever, work dress clothes.

If anything killed the suit and tie it may have been the massive influx of newly minted professionals via the GI bill after WWII. People (like my dad) who never had any expectation of being more than a blue collar worker had a crack at being degreed, white collar professionals.

For them, suits and ties weren't clothes, they were a costume. I'm not sure they were ever fully comfortable in them. They tended to change out of their work wear as soon as they got home to get comfortable and preserve them. When people view a clothing article like that, it's days are usually numbered.

Besides, nothing lasts forever.

 

[Shangas]

Provided I was wearing appropriate clothing and it didn't perceptively interfere with comfort, I would have no problem wearing a tie. I wore one all through my thirteen years at school and kinda got used to it.

 

[Canadian]

Interesting,

In Canada, very few schoolboys wear ties. My dad asked me in grade 7 if I'd like to start wearing a white shirt and tie to class. I said the look was rather "nerdy" and since I wasn't attending a private school, I declined.

However, in grade ten, I wore a blue cotton shirt, blue necktie and blue slacks almost every day. I had multiple pairs, with subtle differences (ie some shirts being button-down collars, some slacks were (gasp) Dockers, while others were Ralph Lauren. I looked out of place to be sure, but at least I could hold my head up and believe I was contributing to a touch of class.

Then when I entered the working world, I found myself wearing a tie and blazer almost every day, even if I was in class 5 hours, followed by merely 2-4 short hours of work. Now that I work with front line staff, often dealing with customers, I vary my dress. Today it was rainy, so I wore a raincoat, a linen jacket and a white shirt with dotted long tie. Another one of my salesmen wears a golf shirt most days and will wear a tie for a big meeting. Although Canadian, many businesses adopt a "California Casual" attitude, especially during our hot, desert summer. I on the other hand, resort to natural fibres and lightweight jackets.

I think perhaps one thing adding to the unpopularity of the tie for common use is modern fabric. No-iron finishes, polyester blend shirts, etc, all are things we wouldn't have found fifty years ago. Because many of us are too busy with Blackberries and at home computer workstations, we never really have much downtime to iron our clothes. Hence the need for hot, artificial fibres. And for those who'd be lucky enough to have a wife or girlfriend who'd do it, in the modern world, two incomes are standard for many city dwellers.

What does this mean? If your suit wearing experience at age 21 consists of a rental tuxedo for prom and a cheap suit for great-aunt Erma's funeral, also pressed into service for your older sisters wedding, you probably don't have a great memory of good suits, let alone any memories of wearing a tie because you want to.

I know when I worked at the legislature, often men would show up for work dressed in dress slacks, a shirt, tie and a hooded sweater. I always wore a jacket, and in inclement weather, an appropriate topcoat and hat. Because I understood how to comfortably wear a suit and tie, I was comfortable dressing like an office worker should.

Something else to remember, not only are ties and shirts expensive, they're also not made like they used to. I've got shirts dating from 1999 that have more wear than my dad's shirts from 1975.

Thomas

 

[Widebrim]

I think perhaps one thing adding to the unpopularity of the tie for common use is modern fabric. No-iron finishes, polyester blend shirts, etc, all are things we wouldn't have found fifty years ago. Because many of us are too busy with Blackberries and at home computer workstations, we never really have much downtime to iron our clothes. Hence the need for hot, artificial fibres. And for those who'd be lucky enough to have a wife or girlfriend who'd do it, in the modern world, two incomes are standard for many city dwellers.

Something else to remember, not only are ties and shirts expensive, they're also not made like they used to. I've got shirts dating from 1999 that have more wear than my dad's shirts from 1975.

Thomas

There's some truth to the modern fabric point. For many years, polyester has been the workhorse fabric for shirts and neckties, and has gotten a bad rap. (Interestingly enough, though, there were plenty of ties made from rayon, acetate, and other-man made/synthetic fibers in the 40s-50s, and this did not result in a decline in necktie use.) I think what also has contributed to the modern unpopularity of neckwear is the thickness of the fabric. Since the late 60s, most ties have been so thick that it is possible to get only a half-Windsor out of them. And as regards price/durability, there definately is a difference, unless one is willing to shell out big bucks (which the average Joe is not).

 

[Widebrim]

Wrong Mr. T, foo! lol

The "Mr. T Look" of 1950 was Esquire's tag line for a slimmed down, cooled off version of the "Bold Look" of 1948. A little less lapel, a little more cuff peg, and a gentle narrowing down of tie, hat, and color and pattern choices.

Of course, it was all too tasteful and couldn't continue. It swung right into the so-called "Ivy" look of the mid-50s-early 60s, which was elite college style redefined by the inhibitions of the newly middleclass. The narrowing continued, no longer gentle but grim and serious: black-and-white clothes for a black-and-white era.

If you look at men's clothing produced from about '52 to '55, you see a well-balanced transition from Bold Look to Mr. T look (the latter style showcased very well in the 1955 film, Kiss Me Deadly, for example). The Mr. T look concentrated on medium width, from brims, to lapels, to neckties, even to trouser legs. Yet by the early-60s you've got minimalism almost in the extreme in men's clothing: 1" neckties usually in solid colors or vertical stripes, super-pegged, pleatless, sometimes cuffless trousers which often barely touched the tops of the shoes, and very narrow lapels on often grey or black jackets (think Rod Serling). And when men did wear hats with this ensemble, it was stingy brim to the max...However, even that look has a certain style to it when worn by the right man (again, think Rod Serling, as well as Dennis Farina on Crime Story). Sorry if a bit fftopic: