The Decline of the Well Put Together Lady

[Miss Neecerie]

And looking at it that way, it's kind of silly to be getting asked "what are YOU all dressed up for..."

Exactly...much like its kinda silly to be discussing 'What are you all not dressed up for...'


It's all fine and well to dress precisely how one wants to, and expect to be left in peace over the choices. I just have issues when people who want to not get comments, spend time discussing what others wear and judging them in context of what they themselves wear.

So they think people are overdressed and we sit here discussing how underdressed everyone is.

How about just not discussing the 'obviously downfall of society relating to dress'....and letting people dress how they wish, which is all we keep saying we want others to respect about our clothing choices.

 

[Lauren]

I agree with what several of you had said. Appropriateness is one thing, sloviness is another, and certainly we would like for people to accept us, whatever our fashion taste in return for us respecting their choice of fashion taste.

Unfortunately, sometimes social preferences seem to be classified by dress and as such people categorize based on that dress rather than getting to know someone. A perfect example is when I go to something dressed vintage and people ask if I swing dance- well, no, not really. Or if I'm wearing something victorianish that happens to be black and people think I'm goth, or wearing skinny jeans with a funky shirt and they think I'm an Indie rocker... But really I'm not any of those things at all... I am guilty of going to pick up medicine at the pharmacy in drawstring velour pants. I am guilty, also of wearing torn jeans. And of going to a fancier dinner in jeans, and wearing flip flops out shopping- heck I'm willing to admit it all... but when online you're forced to see people by their icons and only what they post we can't make those judgements- it's kind of like a community of like mindedness regardless of everyday dress which has made the lounge a good place to be in my opinion.

Do we wish that in places like a courtroom or officeplace that people would dress more respectfully? Certainly- but the modern view of respect has been charactarized to accept people regardless of anything exterior or monetary, so it probably won't be changing in the near future.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Do we wish that in places like a courtroom or officeplace that people would dress more respectfully? Certainly- but the modern view of respect has been charactarized to accept people regardless of anything exterior or monetary, so it probably won't be changing in the near future.

That's a good point -- times and attitudes do change and evolve. A hundred years ago those of us who go around showing our ankles would have gotten our share of "wanton hussy!" glares from the guardians of elegant civilization.

But does that evolution mean that there's no event where one might legitimately be criticized for dressing in a too-casual manner? I think the courtroom is an example where that criticism might very well be justified, regardless of the personal standards of the parties involved -- because a courtroom is supposed to represent Authority. If someone's picked for jury duty, and they show up in shorts and a t-shirt, are they showing appropriate respect for the gravity of their role in the proceedings? Would a judge be justified in telling them to go home and come back in "appropriate attire?"

It may be just my age talking here -- I'm old enough to remember when I wasn't allowed to wear pants to school, let alone jeans -- but it does seem like there's cases where drawing a line is appropriate, and criticism is legitmate and not just being picky. I think that was the original point of the thread, and not a sweeping indictment of jeans-wearing and all.

 

[Girl Friday]

I have to say sweat pants are for the gym... or when you are sick and in bed all day. However, I just moved and I am having a hard time with finding a place to put up my ironing board! So I look like a slob this week and last...and most likely next!

 

[Lauren]

But does that evolution mean that there's no event where one might legitimately be criticized for dressing in a too-casual manner? I think the courtroom is an example where that criticism might very well be justified, regardless of the personal standards of the parties involved -- because a courtroom is supposed to represent Authority. If someone's picked for jury duty, and they show up in shorts and a t-shirt, are they showing appropriate respect for the gravity of their role in the proceedings? Would a judge be justified in telling them to go home and come back in "appropriate attire?"

Very well said. And I certainly agree

My mother works for a school district and while they can't tell the girls in jeans to go home and change, they certainly can the children who's mothers let them attend school in miniskirts that don't cover them when they sit down. If what is deemed inappropriate now for the courtroom is what was mentioned here (which I am in agreement on that point) then I can't even imagine what it will be in a number of years when the next generation has reached the age of being called to their duty as citizens.

I also agree that it is hard to have a newer standard brought in with the upheaval of the old way of life- if anything we have the change in generations following WWII to blame for rebelling against the way things were then. Our freedom to be individuals has brought about a lot of wonderful changes to be sure- and a resurfacing of arts- unfortunately we as Americans tend to like something to fight for and what do you do when the barriers of dress have been already crossed? Cross more?

The argument of appropriate dress is certainly not a new one- people for centuries have been dressing inappropriately for some reason or anther, but with our current society's lack of appropriateness in speak and action it is not suprising that dress is following true to form. There are certainly areas where I would like to see a removal back to the old ways of society- in public appropriatness in places of respect and manners.

 

[AllaboutEve]

Just think of it like this ladies--every time you leave the house well dressed and with make up on you are striking out against slovenliness.

Remember a revolution starts with one person!

Now let's go out there and wow them all!

I seriously love this! I think I'm gonna print it out and pin it to the wardrobe door!!!!!

 

[Paisley]

Judging people based on their character is far better than judging them based on their appearance. But we don't always have the opportunity to dig that deeply. Suppose someone knocks on your door and says "I've locked myself out, can I use your phone?" What are you going to do, ask for references? No, you'll have to go entirely by your impression of the person, attire being part of the equation.

And let's admit it, we're not always going to bother digging deeper. Let's say, for instance, you're at a luncheon and someone introduces you to her friend, a CPA. Further, you are looking for a CPA to help you handle your problems with the IRS. However, this CPA you're being introduced to has bed-head hair and she's wearing a hoodie and khakis to a luncheon. Will you think, "I'd like her to represent me to the IRS and in court" or "She's a flake"? (FYI, a suit and neat, simple hairdo is standard attire for CPAs at business functions.) Sure, you could get her references and resume, but wouldn't you rather spend your time looking for someone who gave more indication of being a professional?

To be honest though, I usually get dressed on the weekend thinking, "Would I want an ex-boyfriend to see me in this?"

 

[Redlights]

"Beauty is truth and truth beauty--this is all ye know on earth and all ye need know."

Let's kick 'em into high gear, ladies. Give them a run for their money. I'll go get that fedora....

1) too true!

and

2) Okay! Off we go! Ladies, onward!

 

[Redlights]

I guess I am asking where the line is being drawn here.

I draw the line at pjamas in public, tiny little bits of fabric passing as clothes and people who walk around proud or ignoring their dissaray. There is no line, but tacky is tacky and gross is gross and sloppy is sloppy but the above three things are all opinions and as you know, opinions are opinions...

I prefer a higher standard of dress. Maybe someone hates that as well.

 

[Honey Doll]

"the line"

I see a huge distinction between instances where our presentation represents only ourselves and where it represents ourselves, others and higher institutions. When a lawyer steps into Court, they are representing not only their own personal fashion tastes, but need to be mindful that they are representing a client, and as an officer of the Court, are representing the judicial process. It should be respected.

People are free to dress anyway they darn well please when they reflect only themselves, but dress which reflects poorly upon others a professional is called upon to represent is in poor taste.

Honey Doll

 

[BettyValentine]

Judging people based on their character is far better than judging them based on their appearance. But we don't always have the opportunity to dig that deeply. Suppose someone knocks on your door and says "I've locked myself out, can I use your phone?" What are you going to do, ask for references? No, you'll have to go entirely by your impression of the person, attire being part of the equation.

People are quietly judging you all the time, and we're doing it to them. Is it necessarily true or fair? No. But to ignore that it is going on is to give yourself a serious handicap.

When I was doing job interviews last year at one advertising place I straightened my hair before the interview. It's long and has a light wave, nothing frizzy or even really curly, just a wave. I later interviewed for the same position but on a different account, and when I went to interview I wore the same suit and shoes and makeup and even had the same manicure. But because of a random time crunch I didn't flat-iron my hair, and just wore it like it normally is. It was clean and brushed and looked like normal, slightly wavy hair.

At the interview with the straight hair everyone said "You seem really smart and organized." At the interview where everything else was equal save my slightly wavy hair (including my answers to the questions they asked) they said "You seem really artsy and intellectual."

BV

 

[Sunny]

Judging people based on their character is far better than judging them based on their appearance. But we don't always have the opportunity to dig that deeply. Suppose someone knocks on your door and says "I've locked myself out, can I use your phone?" What are you going to do, ask for references? No, you'll have to go entirely by your impression of the person, attire being part of the equation.

Very thoughtful, well-balanced post. :eusa_clap For me, it's the voluntary, choice-based parts of appearance that I weigh in. It's a judgment that takes into account not only how they're attired, but also the situation and how they appear to feel. In an emergency room waiting area, I'm not judging anyone by how they look! Like Honey Doll said, attire is the most important when it's reflecting upon others as well upon oneself. To ignore that can only be called self-centeredness.

Someone was wondering early about neat, well-fitting jeans, and why they're still seen as more casual than sloppy over-sized khaki cargo pants. Jeans have been around for a long time. For roughly the first 100 years, they've been hard-wearing work wear. Exclusively. Fashionable cuts and new weights, softness, and color of material are relatively new developments. Now denim is just another material. I don't think it's unreasonable for jeans to still be classed as casual; it's just long-term cultural memory.

 

[Miss Dottie]

You know--I must say--sometimes my dressing style is tied to my mood. If I'm not feeling very chipper I just don't care what I'm wearing, but when I feel on top of the world, why, I'll put on something that reflects that mood.

And sometimes I just need to fake it. Put on a pretty dress. Polish the shoes and smile out at the world. And before you know it, I'm feeling better, being nicer, and dare I say it--even more polite! (Although, I like to think I always mind my manners ... )

Just think what a better place the world would be if we just took a few moments to dress nicer to feel nicer.

Wouldn't that be lovely?

 

[mysterygal]

Some encouraging news

I've been dressing vintage for church for about a month now (well longer if you don't count the recent addition to wearing gloves) anyways, I've been getting a lot of great compliments, but still people were showing up in jeans and casual wear...anyways, last Sunday, a lady showed up in a nice suit with matching hat and an older gentleman came along with a nice hat on his head as well :eusa_clap

 

[Honey Doll]

Very Nice!

I've been dressing vintage for church for about a month now (well longer if you don't count the recent addition to wearing gloves) anyways, I've been getting a lot of great compliments, but still people were showing up in jeans and casual wear...anyways, last Sunday, a lady showed up in a nice suit with matching hat and an older gentleman came along with a nice hat on his head as well :eusa_clap

You've started the revolution!

Honey Doll

 

[Lady Day]

I was at Jamba Juice the other day (oh yes, I rock the Jamba Juice ) and I was a lovely put together lady. She was moderned, in a gold lacy dress (she did need a slip but that is beside, or through the point lol). She had a brocade shawl, nice shades, modest heels and all in all a nice day look with a bit of modest sex appeal.

With this surge of late 40s and 50s vintage styles surfacing for fall, Im worried as to how we are gonna get through it. Our choices on the bay (as many of you ladies already know) are gonna dry up or balloon to crazy prices, and we will always be able to tell the good VI (vintage inspired) from the bad. But to tell the truth, I would enjoy ladies taking pleasure in dressing like a lady again.

LD

 

[mysterygal]

You've started the revolution!

Honey Doll

lol lol Well, I can't take all the credit...MK has also been helping!!! Actually, I was his first 'recruit' around here

 

[Paisley]

I was at Jamba Juice the other day (oh yes, I rock the Jamba Juice ) and I was a lovely put together lady. She was moderned, in a gold lacy dress (she did need a slip but that is beside, or through the point lol). She had a brocade shawl, nice shades, modest heels and all in all a nice day look with a bit of modest sex appeal.

I saw a lady on Saturday at Jamba Juice that could have passed for Miss Manners--long-sleeved blouse, hair loosely in a bun, and below-the-knee skirt.

 

[GOK]

<snip>
I spend a lot of time at my husband's unit and I've always felt that my appearance reflects on him. I've always felt that if I show up looking trashy, like trash, or disregard common manners and decency (you'd be suprised at some of the things I've heard come out of spouses mouths to people who dangerously outrank their husband) it reflects poorly on him and I do him no favor as far as his fellow marines respecting him.

I have absolutely nothing to add to this except my agreement.

OK I lied, I do have something to add!

In the first place I do think that as a society we are wrong for judging people on their appearance; however, I also accept that this is the way it is and so with this in mind, there are certain situations where an appropriate mode of dress is called for. I refer back to Nashoba's post and the many comments about lawyers etc.

Because we have been conditioned by society to expect certain people to act in a particular way, it could be said that our dress dictates to an extent the way we (and those associated with us) are treated. See my signature line - Ms Westwood never spoke a truer word. It might not be 'right' but it is true. So if I have a lawyer (to use the favoured example) representing me, I expect him or her to at least look like they command respect.

People make snap judgements about others. Fact.

If I see two lawyers in court, one dressed in a smart suit and one dressed in tatty jeans and a hoodie, my immediate instinct would be that the smart one would be the one the judge and jury listen to the most. I'm not saying that lawyer would be any smarter or more competent - chances are, it'd be the casual one, free from any appearance-related hangups that would be the better bet - but this is what Joe Public sees. And that's what counts, not whether I think that to judge someone by their appearance is a load of old tosh.

On a more personal level, because I am an aesthete, I like to dress well and to see others similarly attired. This is purely a matter of personal taste and has absolutely nothing to do with people's personalities etc. I don't believe that a scruffily attired person necessarily has a lack of self respect, or lack of respect for anyone else. I also don't think such people are stupid, ignorant, unworthy of getting to know better or any other negative adjective you care to add to this list!

I also know that there have been many well dressed murderers, rapists, paedophiles, torturers, dictators, fascists, incompetents and the like. And still are.

The only exception to the above, as far as I can make out are chavs. I don't know what you'd call them in the States (trailer trash perhaps?) but over here, generally speaking, they are the most loathsome creatures you could imagine.

These little animations sum them up perfectly!

http://cecimoz.co.uk/portal.php?page=7

http://cecimoz.co.uk/portal.php?page=10

http://cecimoz.co.uk/portal.php?page=13

Enjoy! lol

 

[katiemakeup]

Oh no, HoneyDoll! I hope your disgust didn't distract your speech! But I agree, I cannot stant flip flops and wrinkled clothing... You don't have to have a million bucks, or be a size 2 or even have up to date (or vintage) clothes, but good grooming always is a must!! One of my favorite 'Lucy' episodes was on the other day where Ricky & Fred wanted to wear their grubby clothes to a movie~ the results of course, were hilarious!

I would think that being in court, one would want to look as presentable as possible!