The Conversion Corral

[Redfokker]

I've several times used a soup-ladle. Works really great. Soup-ladle on the inside of the crown - and then you can roll a (cylindrical) glass over the steamed felt on the outside

Nice tip, have to give this a try.

 

[Windsock8e]

When I first started doing conversions,I used a hand ball to work westerns into open crown.Still do it that way if I don't have the right size block.

What do you mean by "hand ball"? I tried @TheDane soup ladle which has worked ok on this Stetson 4x.

Before:

So far:

Am having trouble cleaning some stains out of it. Tried lighter fluid (there is no known naptha in the UK) and hat sponge - no joy. Sanded with some 120 grit - progress.

 

[DOGMAN]

It's a small blue rubber ball.

 

[RJR]

It's a small blue rubber ball.

As Dogman indicates,the ball made for the game of handball.I've used a similar sized one from Lacrosse.

 

[Windsock8e]

As Dogman indicates,the ball made for the game of handball.I've used a similar sized one from Lacrosse.

Ah, excellent, thank you both, I understand. There is a foam company offering blocks here in the UK. I guess they are dense foam but wonder if they can actually function as blocks. Somewhat interesting as their office is 20 mn from home.

I also worked out what naptha equivalent is in the UK. I want to try this. I found a selection of Petersham ribbon at Portobello Road market as well yesterday.

I will probably trim the brim on this one - it is dimensional 2 7/8 fore and aft with 2 3/4 on the sides. I would like to even them out perhaps to 2 5/8, but will see. I will be doing by hand as I do not have a brim cutter.

Incidentally, this is not the destroyed hat I mentioned earlier which I may be sending off to Esther - proper Hatter. I hope I am not offending anyone with what I am trying here on the stetson...

 

[T Jones]

@T-Jones I think I may have got the inspiration/idea from you in one of your earlier posts . Other question: I have read of people using a ball (tennis? golf? ping pong ?) when steaming hats out back to open crown in the absence of a block - tennis ball?

OK - maybe I should just get on with things and see what happens.

My purpose for using the paint can and bubble wrap was to change the shape of the original open crown, which, for the Stagecoach I was working on then, was rounded and tapered up. The paint can form, with bubble wrap to fill the void between the crown and the can, gave the new open crown a much more straight sided profile.

But, if you can get hold of some actual hat blocks that would be much better.

 

[LuvMyMan]

Ah, excellent, thank you both, I understand. There is a foam company offering blocks here in the UK. I guess they are dense foam but wonder if they can actually function as blocks. Somewhat interesting as their office is 20 mn from home.

I also worked out what naptha equivalent is in the UK. I want to try this. I found a selection of Petersham ribbon at Portobello Road market as well yesterday.

I will probably trim the brim on this one - it is dimensional 2 7/8 fore and aft with 2 3/4 on the sides. I would like to even them out perhaps to 2 5/8, but will see. I will be doing by hand as I do not have a brim cutter.

Incidentally, this is not the destroyed hat I mentioned earlier which I may be sending off to Esther - proper Hatter. I hope I am not offending anyone with what I am trying here on the stetson...

I would just steam the "hell" out of that hat and work the crown smooth with your fingers and hands...I do that and it seems to be just great to get a cattlemen's crease out. Turn that hat upside done...get a tea kettle going to steam...and hit the crown with the steam really good...keep the hat away from the fire or stove top...but steam it like crazy and it should relax and push smooth for you.

 

[LuvMyMan]

My purpose for using the paint can and bubble wrap was to change the shape of the original open crown, which, for the Stagecoach I was working on then, was rounded and tapered up. The paint can form, with bubble wrap to fill the void between the crown and the can, gave the new open crown a much more straight sided profile.

But, if you can get hold of some actual hat blocks that would be much better.

Did you make that can oblong at all?

 

[LuvMyMan]

Here's the Stetson 4X that moon gave me. It's almost finished. All I have left to do is to let it dry from where I spritzed it damp with water to crease it, (that's why it looks a little splotchy in the one pic. It'll dry nice and evenly, though). It's already creased and flanged and I'll be sewing on this dark brown 1 1/2 ribbon that I scavenged off of the Premier Whippet that I recently finished. I'm trying to go for something like Alan Ladd's "China" fedora. Again, this one has a 5 3/4 Open crown. It's creased in a Tear Drop, 4 3/4 at the pinch with the rake sloping to 4 1/4 at the back. The brim is 2 5/8 inches wide...

Alan Ladd's' "China" hat

Geez..some of you youngsters are getting damned good at working hats around to make them how you like them to be!

 

[LuvMyMan]

Thanks for the kind words Cindy.

Well you do super nice work!

 

[LuvMyMan]

Giving this 4X Stetson western that moon gave me another go around. I sized it down from a 7 3/8 to a 7 1/4. No problem. Went to take it off the block last week only to find that the inside of the hat was glued. I gave it another shot, only this time I blocked it inside out and got the glue cleaned off....

Before, when I took it off the block last week revealing that the crown was glued inside.

After, on the block drying, once again. Only this time it's turned inside out and the glue is cleaned off.

WOW! What a great difference...

 

[Windsock8e]

I've been pouncing the inside of a western weight Stetson 4x to see how far I can go to soften it up. I already worked the outside up to 1200 grit, but went quite coarse on the inside (240). Whilst it is feeling softer and thinner (and a good exercise to "feel" the felt), does anyone do this and what would you say is the ideal - or is that just subjective?

I have left the brim which is not too stiff, but I want the crown to have life.

 

[T Jones]

Geez..some of you youngsters are getting damned good at working hats around to make them how you like them to be!

Thank you Cindy!

 

[Cane Rod Maker]

I've been pouncing the inside of a western weight Stetson 4x to see how far I can go to soften it up. I already worked the outside up to 1200 grit, but went quite coarse on the inside (240). Whilst it is feeling softer and thinner (and a good exercise to "feel" the felt), does anyone do this and what would you say is the ideal - or is that just subjective?

I have left the brim which is not too stiff, but I want the crown to have life.

I'm curious to know how you made out. I can see pouncing each side to lighten a hat, but stiffness, that is the schallac mixture used in that felting process for that body style and to my knowledge, they have a different amount of stiffness. You can also make a schallac, if that brim is needing attention. Good luck on your job.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[Windsock8e]

I'm curious to know how you made out. I can see pouncing each side to lighten a hat, but stiffness, that is the schallac mixture used in that felting process for that body style and to my knowledge, they have a different amount of stiffness. You can also make a schallac, if that brim is needing attention. Good luck on your job.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

You are absolutely right, I would not be able to pounce the shellac out of the hat.

My original pouncing intention was to reduce the weight in the crown and see if it would make it somewhat more malleable in spite of the shellac.

This worked to a degree, but it is possible that it is also more malleable as I left the hat for a couple of hours in some naptha equivalent or it could also be that this hat was not as stiff as it might have been in the first place. I was able to dry bash this and then lock it in with just a small blast of steam for the dents at the front (that might also be the shellac working after cooling down from the blast of steam).

Out of interest, I wish I had weighed the hat before and then after. I pounced this hat for something between 2 - 3 hours, probably a little more; it is somewhat hypnotic. My wife said I looked like Ernst Blofeld from the Bond movies stroking a cat. My daughter considered that the pouncing did make the hat very soft and pleasing to touch but not as soft as a 1950s hat I have - naturally.

I am actually tempted to thin the felt more in the crown and possibly in the brim, but then I may as well get a non-Western weight hat without the shellac! Still, this is all for me to learn a little.

So in summary, and confirmation of your thoughts, pouncing did not reduce the shellac effect, although a naptha bath and possibly lighter shellac content in the first place (apart from the brim!) makes it more malleable.

 

[Windsock8e]

I was hesitant on posting this here or even at all, given the quality of the other conversions and the expert hatters, but I figure I may as well seek some insight and constructive feedback so that I can start learning. Somone let me know if I should post this elsewhere (or just get my coat).

The original hat was a Stetson cattleman crease 4x Beaver, 3 inch brim and 5 7/8 open crown with "Warnock Hat Works" on the sweat. I bought it off a guy in Wales, so it is a well travelled hat.

I took off the hat band, liner and Stetson spec label but left the sweatband in and steamed it with a soup ladle and glass as per The Danes suggestion (earlier post and pictures above). A block would be a lot easier - still hunting for one...

Big scrub clean then left in a bucket of naphtha / white gas / called something else in UK. I rubbed it with a hat sponge but should have used a brush to scrub (like it says in the Erhmatinger book), still, it is cleaner than it was.

I then pounced it off and on over a few days working up from 240, 400, 600 grit on the inside and then the same on the outside but passing through 800, 1,000, 1,200 grit on the crown. See above comments to Cane Rod Makers questions.

I ironed the brim flat and then spent a looong time measuring a 2.5 inch brim. I then spent a looong time cutting very carefully with a box cutter. I then spent a short time working out why I had wasted a looong time measuring the brim wrong - without a band block or something to measure the distance on a constant, the base of the crown / brim will oscillate. Even if I had a rounding jack, it would be tricky without a band block. I evened it out by eye (but I can tell that it is still not right) and then pounced the edge. I need to get a band block in my size.

I do not have any brim flanges and tried to use the tip of the ironing board to introduce a curve up at the back without success - shellac.

I added the ribbon on which there are so many things gone wrong that it is a miracle it is still on. As you can see, it is also too high. I may just play around making different bows on some old ribbon and taking lessons from my family (my wife and daughter are delighted as I bribed them by buying a better sewing kit which was on promo). Will probably change it - question: I looped the ribbon onto the band - I saw in a video the band sewn on with a gap for the ribbon which is then sewn on (it was a split second in a panning shot) - is that a better way?

My intention was to add some brim binding but I figured I should take things slow (and perhaps not on a Western weight without a lot more pouncing).

This is what my first attempt looks like. If nothing else, it fits me comfortably!

So, comments, advice, suggestions (constructive please!)?

 

[Chepstow]

Windsock, nicely done. Looks good for the first time, my opinion. A little bit more steam on the brim to give it a better shape and it looks perfect! But I like it.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro

 

[Windsock8e]

Windsock, nicely done. Looks good for the first time, my opinion. A little bit more steam on the brim to give it a better shape and it looks perfect! But I like it.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro

Thank you kindly! Here is a little more steam.

I think I managed to make the brimdimensional despite trying an even 2.5" around. Perhaps the back should be slightly shorter to get it to turn up?

 

[RJR]

Windsock, nicely done. Looks good for the first time, my opinion. A little bit more steam on the brim to give it a better shape and it looks perfect! But I like it.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro

+1

 

[FedOregon]

Good first effort for sure! I have no comments on how to do anything better as I know nothing about the hatting business or doing conversions.