The Cap Faction

[rlk]

Weird Woven flat cap

Odd synthetic sweatband which seems to have deteriorated from age rather than wear.

 

[zetwal]

Weird is right, but interesting too.

 

[Razzman]

Unique!

 

[St. Valentine]

A psychedelic cap! You seem to have a great collection Rik. :eusa_clap

 

[Adnamira]

Nice cap, but not one I'd wear to the zoo.

 

[Woodfluter]

Several things to show. I'll start with one that Jason will want to see - you're right my friend, limited edition and too wild to pass up. Coarse Donegal tweed loaded with slubs, in impressionist colors centered on sky blue.



This was listed by Classic Caps Ltd (England) as 11". Well, it's actually about 10", and definitely is unbranded City Sport. Their large is in this cap is also 59 instead of 60, so I had to put it on the stretcher a couple of times, but it came around fine.

As received, it was simply too shallow for my deep dome. I carefully removed the three stitches tacking the crown down to the brim, and re-stitched it closer to the crown and not so near the end of the brim. I had to use an awl to punch holes through the plastic brim core, and finding those with needles required a bit of technique But in this coarse stuff, stitches disappear! Two were sufficient - didn't need and was better off without pulling the center down.

I've worn it a couple of times so far and am liking it more and more.
Next up, the same model linen cap from the same source.

 

[Woodfluter]

Blue linen (un-labeled, but certainly City Sport) cap from Classic Caps Ltd.
At ₤29, too inexpensive to pass up and no extra shipping charge.
Also said to be 11", actually 10", and size 59. But to my surprise, this one needed no stretching!



Now this one was also too shallow for my head - kept popping off. So I clipped the threads holding the crown front to the brim, and voila, perfect fit. I didn't re-stitch this like I did with its wild brother above...didn't seem to need that. Without stitches, is reminiscent of Edwardian caps, about which I'll post a bit more later on.

Wore this a lot on Saturday, including at a wedding party gig.
Like the other CS linen I have (a true 11"-er), the quality of the fabric is outstanding.

FYI, in case you care, both these caps weigh in at around 90 gm, or roughly 3.15 oz.
That tells you a bit about the weight of the linen. Also, both are suitable for warmer weather IMO.

 

[Woodfluter]

Miam-miam!
Also just in, the Retro Sport ordered from Mamie Blue in Paris. C'est si bon!





This size 60 fit perfectly on my 59.5 head.
Holds its shape very nicely in soft, midweight herringbone wool, with white slubs to add rakishness.
Très sportif!
The size of the visor is just right, and it fits the head well without curving it very much. That's a bit different.
I wore this today and it will become a favorite.
Weighs 83 gm or 2.95 oz. Not too warm for Atlanta weather, surprisingly.

I will order one or two more, I can tell...

 

[seabass]

WoodFluter
Nice #1
I have the same retro sport too warm to wear now. & i recieved the brown linen city sport that blue linen is nice & yes that linen does have a heft but light feel to it...
try the Linen retro sport it to is hefty & light (not wrinkly loose) i have the ecru linen it stands tall on its own

 

[Woodfluter]

Historical Trends in Caps?

I've seen photos of 8/4 and flat caps in old photos. Too lazy to track them all down, but my mind was tickled by paintings of Edwardian-era golfers in a country club where we played this past weekend, so I did some online searching.



Frederick Guthrie Tait and caddy, painted 1901 one year after his death in the Boer War. Son of fanatical Scottish golfer, physicist and mathematician Peter Guthrie Tait, and a famous long hitter himself. Note that these caps are fairly trim and seem not to have been stitched down in front - the original pattern methinks. I've seen more like this, some with resolution not warranting reproduction here, but they're common. Believe this was the inspiration for the Hat People deep-cut caps. Not exactly the same but similar.

Here's another famous golfer, J.H. Taylor taken around the same time:



- - - - -



Old Tom Morris, a seminal figure in the history, here painted in 1903.
On seeing this portrait, his only comment was "Ye've gotten the checks all wrang on me bunnet!"
And his bonnet was much like Tait's.

"Morris was the son of a weaver, and began golf by age ten, by knocking wine-bottle corks pierced with nails (to serve as balls) around the streets of the town using a homemade club, in informal matches against other youths; this was known as 'sillybodkins'. "
Now I'm no golfer, but sillybodkins really appeals to me.

- - - - -



A few years later, the "great triumverate" of golf in 1913. John Henry Taylor, seated on the left, appears to wear a flat cap similar to the Retro Sport variety, although it's hard to tell for sure. James Braid Jr is in the center, and in a photo taken in 1913 seems to wear something like the RS sort.



Late in his life, he's still sporting a similar style:



- - - - -



This is Harry Vardon, the third member of the triumverate. Painted from a photo whose resolution is too weak to show here. Note that the front of his cap's crown appears to be free, not attached to the visor. By the 19-teens the trendy caps appear to have become larger and fuller on the whole, but still mostly not affixed by snaps or stitches in general and with a fair amount of visor protruding. I've seen a good number of other illustrations emphasizing this.

All sorts of photos might be found to support or contradict my fragile hypothesis, but I think caps were trim and deep in the 1890s-early 1900s and often had smaller, tidy visors; then got wider and had larger visors by around 1910; and even wider and the brim front held down by various means by the 1920s - although I've seen a few pictures in the 19-teens where the crown front seemed sewn down to the visor front.

Anybody have any other historical evidence to cite?

 

[Adnamira]

Several things to show. I'll start with one that Jason will want to see - you're right my friend, limited edition and too wild to pass up. Coarse Donegal tweed loaded with slubs, in impressionist colors centered on sky blue.

Yes, mine arrived today too, coincidently. It too is size 59, but there isn't a lot of difference in fit to my size 60. And no City Sport Brand... but exactly the same in every way in lining, donegal tweed lab, and brim and so on. It is also the smaller sized newsboy City Sport style, which what I reckoned from the photos, but don't regret the purchase as far as the fabric goes... it actually looks very good and not outrageous at all. For some reason I can't explain with that blue cap with the sun glasses, you remind me of Jack Nicholson. I don't know if he ever wore a cap even... but you look like someone rich igognito. I should have ordered one of those linens.

I reckon the Retro Sport style is working better for you than it does for me. I haven't figured out how to wear mine yet... it bulges out onto my ears a lot, so I think I will have to sit it up more or cock it to the side. The trouble with cocking to the side for me, is that I can never make up my mind which side to wear it.

 

[Razzman]

Very nice Woodfluter! The Retro Sport suit you well!

 

[Hepville]

I've seen photos of 8/4 and flat caps in old photos. Too lazy to track them all down, but my mind was tickled by paintings of Edwardian-era golfers in a country club where we played this past weekend, so I did some online searching.

Now that is interesting woodfluter, thanks for that! I´ll need to visit a good friend of mine and see through his new received vintage catalogues.
He said he´s already seen some nice caps in one of them... I´ll ask him If I can scan some pages to show them.
This linen cap is a very fine one too... suits you well!


I will come up with two more colours in linen, too: Blue and natural white.

I was able to purchase some really fine fabric for summer caps: A beige coloured super 100s wool from Scabal: http://www.scabal.de/
Kind of a "luxurious remnant" ... Not enough to put this on Etsy I guess... I will make a cap with a full leather sweatband and show it here.

 

[Hepville]

I reckon the Retro Sport style is working better for you than it does for me. I haven't figured out how to wear mine yet... it bulges out onto my ears a lot, so I think I will have to sit it up more or cock it to the side. The trouble with cocking to the side for me, is that I can never make up my mind which side to wear it.

So why don´t you decide it with a little "heads or tails"?

 

[St. Valentine]

I was able to purchase some really fine fabric for summer caps: A beige coloured super 100s wool from Scabal: http://www.scabal.de/
Kind of a "luxurious remnant" ... Not enough to put this on Etsy I guess... I will make a cap with a full leather sweatband and show it here.

Now that sounds quite promising. Looking forward to seeing the pictures of it, I am still searching for a summer Newsboy-cap with a look that convinces me.

Frank

 

[Woodfluter]

Now that is interesting woodfluter, thanks for that! I´ll need to visit a good friend of mine and see through his new received vintage catalogues. He said he´s already seen some nice caps in one of them... I´ll ask him If I can scan some pages to show them.

That's great, would love to see that! I like variety, and hence the looks of these different styles of 8/4 and flat caps from different periods; it would be good to get a more complete picture and timeline.

I will come up with two more colours in linen, too: Blue and natural white.
I was able to purchase some really fine fabric for summer caps: A beige coloured super 100s wool from Scabal:
... I will make a cap with a full leather sweatband and show it here.

Great! By the way, I agree that this could work fine for summer and don't think wool is necessarily a cool-weather fabric. I wear wool socks year-round, finding them cooler and drier than any alternatives. Wool is very versatile. The Retro Sport I showed is an example...wore that today in temperatures close to 80F (27C) and sweating on the forehead was the only issue, same as with any cap or hat, solved by shifting it around. As long as the fabric breathes well and isn't excessively thick, it's fine.

From what I've seen here, you do good work. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

- Bill

 

[Woodfluter]

Yes, mine arrived today too, [...] And no City Sport Brand... but exactly the same in every way in lining, donegal tweed lab, and brim and so on. It is also the smaller sized newsboy City Sport style, which what I reckoned from the photos,

I wish they had a style label in them - the consequence of re-branding. I'd say it's medium-sized at 10 inches or thereabouts. The brown Harris tweed I have is Style 20, which has a smaller visor, more trim cut but deeper crown, and about 9.5 inch diameter. Like this:





Sort of reminiscent of the turn-of-the-century caps I showed later on.
I cut the center (of three) stitches holding the crown front to the visor, and it sits better this way, given the smaller dimensions.

Which brings up a related subject. If you put a snap in there, you could (I suppose) unsnap it for uncertain reasons, but the iconic Bob Dylan album cover to the contrary notwithstanding, that looks sorta goofy to me. However, if you put stitches like CS does, you have options. Snip off the one in the middle and it doesn't pull down excessively there with a smaller cap for a higher head. Or snip them all off like I did with the linen. Or re-position them with a bit of trouble, but feasible. No such options with a snap. So I'm liking stitches. I don't mind the snap on the Retro Sport, but no real reason to unfasten it.

Back on track: The style 420 is the full 11 inch size, with a larger visor. The two I ordered from Classic Caps was in-between; about 10 inch crown but not as full, and larger visor about like that on the 420 model. I appreciate visor size. I wish I knew the model number CS assigns to those we just acquired.

[...]but don't regret the purchase as far as the fabric goes... it actually looks very good and not outrageous at all. For some reason I can't explain with that blue cap with the sun glasses, you remind me of Jack Nicholson.

Uh-oh. Nicholson always looked kinda scary, more so now! Or maybe that's good...
I do like the fabric and my take was the same as yours, not so outrageous and very wearable. Good funky.
Glad to hear you're enjoying yours too!

- Bill

 

[Adnamira]

Which brings up a related subject. If you put a snap in there, you could (I suppose) unsnap it for uncertain reasons, but the iconic Bob Dylan album cover to the contrary notwithstanding, that looks sorta goofy to me. However, if you put stitches like CS does, you have options. Snip off the one in the middle and it doesn't pull down excessively there with a smaller cap for a higher head. Or snip them all off like I did with the linen. Or re-position them with a bit of trouble, but feasible. No such options with a snap. So I'm liking stitches. I don't mind the snap on the Retro Sport, but no real reason to unfasten it.

- Bill

When I ordered the Wigens Gatsby, I was hoping it would have the snaps. I think with the snaps, the lighter fabrics are more rounded where the crown is pulled to the join, but it doesn't matter as much with tweeds and heavy wools. It occured to me last night that if the Wigens had of had a stitched brim, snipping those two side stitches would have made a lovely cap that even the hardcore vintage cap sect wouldn't dismiss. If I ever get a Wigens Gatsby with a stitched brim, that is what I will do.

The ten inch City Sport with the bigger brim is a size that seems to work very well for me. I find with larger crowns, I spend a lot of time pulling them around and trying to get them right, but the tapered newsboy City Sport crown is roomy enough for me, and the bigger brim gives the look more dimension. I find the same thing with felt hats... I don't really like the western look, but wider brims seem to look better on me... narrow brims make my head look big or something. It's something I am starting to look for in newsboys and flatcaps, that as long as the crown is roomy enough for me, it is the size of the brim that gives the cap the look of dimension. I'd like to try one of City Sports flat cap styles with the longer brims.... I suspect they won't work for me, but their fabrics are fun somehow. You seem to be able to wear all the styles well, Bill. That Harris Tweed cap is a lovely colour - City Sport now how to pick their fabrics!

It really is obvious that you cannot recommend a single cap style or brand to suit everyone. Even with people with the same head size, the shape of a persons face and shape of their skull, and even their complexion, can make a cap or hat look completely different on one person to the next. Gawd it is a lot of trial and error when you are buying on the net... but so far, City Sport would be my favourite brand. There are probably better caps out there, and I'd like a cotton lining, but for the price there is really nothing to complain about with them. I really like my Wigens too, but being a bit dearer, you start being fussy about defects, whereas with the price of the City Sport, they seem to be consistant quality, are affordable, and you don't have any regrets when you buy them - I think they're are right on the money for a brand name. People might say that they are not this or that, but they are a company that has to stay in business to be able to keep people employed, so I think they have done a good job in designing a product that is saleable, is value for money, but also has some character and style.

 

[Adnamira]

I was going to take some pics of my Van Gogh tweed cap this morning, but I can't find the SD card for my camera

 

[Adnamira]

Mobile phone pic of Chunky Donegal Tweed City Sport Cap. Bit of a dingy photo... will get a better one whenever I find my SD card