The Bowler or Derby Hat

[mayserwegener]

H.B. "Prima Weser Hut", 59cm, 172 grams, probably 1920s (hard to date could be earlier or later). Believe it or not this Wool Stiff Felt has a mirror inset into the liner logo! The liner logo has the initials H.B. and the paper label has the initials H.B.B. so could be Heinrich Balke Bremen who was a hat whole seller. Weser is a river that flows into Bremen so this makes sense. "Weser Hut" is trademarked so will see if I can find anything.

Mirror inset into Liner Logo!

Close up of the Logo with Mirror.

 

[Chepstow]

Wonderful Detail, very nice find,Steve!


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[mayserwegener]

Manfred, Thanks! Definitely a unique feature and it still works!

 

[Chepstow]

Yes, definately![emoji16]


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[Redfokker]

This one looks good from a few feet away, but under the microscope, a project. I have a couple of questions about Derbies (Derbys?). What kind of a job is cleaning and restitching the sweat? Do I need to take this one to my Hatter? The mold brushed away with a little effort, but is it still contaminated? I was too ashamed to photo it, but trust me, it was there.

I am thinking the Stetson Logo is of 1930s vintage, it would match the age of Seattle's Bon Marche store logo. The mfg tags have survived, but are not crisp and easy to read. The lot number on the sweat probably would not help in dating but including a picture as well. Would like a possible vintage era on this one, I'm kind of excited to have a hat from before WWII.

 

[ofcoursemyhorse]

I'd say your guess on age is spot on, you should definitely send it to a hatter if you intend on any doing any kind or replacement or restitching of the original sweat or a deep clean. Stiff felts are no joke to try and get a needle and thread through. If the reed is still attached to the hat you can attempt to restitch the sweatband to the reed.

 

[ofcoursemyhorse]

So very interestingly enough, this bowler began its life as a much taller iteration, and was trimmed down to its shorter stature. I've included a picture of the original tag which lists the depth of the crown at a much deeper 5 1/4.
The trimmed down portion of the bowler is actually attached behind the sweatband as padding.

 

[Chepstow]

Interesting, what could be the reason to so that ? A cooler look!?


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[Hurricane Jack]

I found this John B. Stetson flexible conforming derby a while back. I'm finally getting around to brushing it out & conditioning it as I have a chance to wear it to a living history function this Sat night. Due to over exposure from the sun my table top pics of the hat itself will have to be retaken but pictures of the nomenclature are below.

 

[Denton]

Some wonderful hats in this thread. Did I forget to comment on OCMH's low crowned bowler? It's a real winner. Hurricane Jack's Stetson and Mayserwegener's Weser with inset mirror are also wonderful.

On the subject of mirrors in hats -- the playwright Ibsen is said to have had a mirror placed inside the crown of his hat. I don't think this feature was ever fashionable in Norway; the anecdote is always told as an illustration of Ibsen's unusual vanity.

No hat shown in Max Beerbohm's caricature, but I like how the wallpaper repeats the motif of Ibsen's whiskers and glasses.

 

[mayserwegener]

Very interesting regarding Ibsen. Is that written anywhere? This was a very unique (might be the only) feature in Germany but promo pocket mirrors for men (see below) were common (not just from hat companies).

 

[Michael A]

This one looks good from a few feet away, but under the microscope, a project. I have a couple of questions about Derbies (Derbys?). What kind of a job is cleaning and restitching the sweat? Do I need to take this one to my Hatter? The mold brushed away with a little effort, but is it still contaminated? I was too ashamed to photo it, but trust me, it was there.

I am thinking the Stetson Logo is of 1930s vintage, it would match the age of Seattle's Bon Marche store logo. The mfg tags have survived, but are not crisp and easy to read. The lot number on the sweat probably would not help in dating but including a picture as well. Would like a possible vintage era on this one, I'm kind of excited to have a hat from before WWII.

I think this hat is earlier than 1930s. If the reorder label is brown rather than orange I think that would maybe put it pre-1930. Your size, block, depth and finish label is identical to the one in mine and I am fairly sure at this point that the store that sold mine closed in 1914.

Michael

 

[Michael A]

So very interestingly enough, this bowler began its life as a much taller iteration, and was trimmed down to its shorter stature. I've included a picture of the original tag which lists the depth of the crown at a much deeper 5 1/4.
The trimmed down portion of the bowler is actually attached behind the sweatband as padding.

Having the duplicate number on the same orange label as the finish and depth info might indicate that this is a 1900 to 1920 model, I think favoring the earlier part of the range. Interesting that they cut it down. Made a very cool looking hat.

 

[Redfokker]

I think this hat is earlier than 1930s. If the reorder label is brown rather than orange I think that would maybe put it pre-1930. Your size, block, depth and finish label is identical to the one in mine and I am fairly sure at this point that the store that sold mine closed in 1914.

Michael

The reorder label and Mfg size tag are both in bad shape, probably from the mold issues. The color is not the same however. I am in the same mind on this one. The only information I can find on the lounge about the Stetson logo does not speak of a date range. I'll search the Lounge more diligently. It does feel very early however, the sweat has the remnants of a "texture" as well.

 

[Michael A]

The reorder label and Mfg size tag are both in bad shape, probably from the mold issues. The color is not the same however. I am in the same mind on this one. The only information I can find on the lounge about the Stetson logo does not speak of a date range. I'll search the Lounge more diligently. It does feel very early however, the sweat has the remnants of a "texture" as well.

I think the condition of the labels probably has as much to do with the acid content of paper from the era as any other source. And as with any internet source take this with several large grains of salt, but http://www.publiusforum.com/category/fedora/stetson/ this has some info on labels and age of Stetson hats

Michael.

 

[Denton]

Very interesting regarding Ibsen. Is that written anywhere? This was a very unique (might be the only) feature in Germany but promo pocket mirrors for men (see below) were common (not just from hat companies).

I first encountered that story in Toril Moi's book Ibsen and the Birth of Modernism. Karl Ove Knausgaard also refers to Ibsen's hat mirror in volume two of My Struggle.

Doing a google search today ("Ibsen top hat mirror"), I see a lot of references to the story in newspapers and magazines from the early twentieth century. In one of them, Ibsen is looking at his reflection in the silk plush surface of the top hat itself! I wonder if that version is a misunderstanding of the other versions, or if that's the real source of the story?

 

[mayserwegener]

Very interesting! It would be great if a different example is found. The feature makes sense to some degree.

 

[alanfgag]

I think this hat is earlier than 1930s. If the reorder label is brown rather than orange I think that would maybe put it pre-1930. Your size, block, depth and finish label is identical to the one in mine and I am fairly sure at this point that the store that sold mine closed in 1914.

Michael

I think the condition of the labels probably has as much to do with the acid content of paper from the era as any other source. And as with any internet source take this with several large grains of salt, but http://www.publiusforum.com/category/fedora/stetson/ this has some info on labels and age of Stetson hats

Michael.

Warner Todd Huston's hat writing is gleaned (with varying degrees of accuracy) from his various identities here over the years. This thread is the beginning of a discussion of the transition from the wide three paned manufacturing tag to the narrow version of the same to the narrow single field manufacturing tag that appears after 1940. Redfokker's derby with the narrow three field tag would date from the mid to late 1930s, IMO.

 

[DJH]

The Colonel was always entertaining though. I've done a few hat deals with him and still miss him posting here.

Who knows, he might be back and we've not noticed yet.


Cheers!
David

 

[Michael A]

Warner Todd Huston's hat writing is gleaned (with varying degrees of accuracy) from his various identities here over the years. This thread is the beginning of a discussion of the transition from the wide three paned manufacturing tag to the narrow version of the same to the narrow single field manufacturing tag that appears after 1940. Redfokker's derby with the narrow three field tag would date from the mid to late 1930s, IMO.

Alan, I will certainly accede to your far greater knowledge of hats. I see now that my label is different than Redfokker's as well.
P1200513 by Michael A2012, on Flickr

Thanks,
Michael