The Bowler or Derby Hat

[Lone_Ranger]

I'm not sure what the official name for the class is, but people that show gaited horses wear a derby. I saw a guy with a fedora at the PA National Horse show the other day. I thought it looked pretty good. No shot of the guy with the fedora, but I managed to get this one.

 

[carter]

The activity is known as dressage. We may have some members of the lounge who participate. Nice shot.

 

[Lone_Ranger]

Nope. It's not dressage.

Dressage calls for a black four-button coat, white breeches, and tall dress boots, black. Or black shadbelly, white breeches and a top hat for upper levels.

Also, dressage is dominated by the German Warmbloods. The horse in the picture is an American bred gaited horse of some type.

 

[Lone_Ranger]

I figured it out.

Isn't Wikipedia great?

Saddle seat is a style of horseback riding within the category of English riding that is designed to show off the high trotting action of certain horse breeds. The style developed into its modern form in the United States, and is also seen in Canada and South Africa. To a much lesser extent, it is ridden with American action horse breeds in Europe and Australia.

The goal of the Saddle seat riding style is to show off the horse's extravagant gaits, particularly the trot. All saddle seat riding is done on the flat (jumping is not involved)....

Horses that naturally have an upright neck with high head carriage, as well as animated gaits and high action are best at saddle seat. They should be very energetic but still remain responsive to the rider's aids. Several breeds do well in this discipline, with the most well-known being the American Saddlebred. Other breeds commonly exhibited in saddle seat style are the National Show Horse, Tennessee Walking Horses, Racking horses, Spotted Saddle horses, Morgans, and Arabians....

According to the United States Equestrian Federation, conservative solid colors must be worn, such as black, navy blue, brown, dark green or gray. Pinstriped fabrics and other fabric textures that appear solid at a distance are also acceptable. However, in some classes, it is also legal to wear a "day coat," which is a coat that is of a contrasting color from the rider's pants.

In all classes, riders wear Kentucky jodhpurs (jods), which are close-fitting pants with knee patches and bell-bottoms that go over the boots, usually with a strap that goes under the boot to keep them from riding up. A long, fitted coat is also required. For men, the coat length usually stops just above the knee. For women, depending on height, the coat may be below the knee, though exact length varies from year to year as show ring fashions change. The outfit is complete with the addition of jodhpur boots that come just over the ankle (similar to "paddock boots" sometimes worn in other disciplines), a hat (usually a derby for women and a fedora for men), a vest, tie, and dark gloves. In some breeds, riders have coat linings made in a contrasting color to add extra flash, though colored linings go in and out of style on a regular basis.....

Now that I read that, I'm pretty sure that horse is an American Saddlebred.

(I just went to catch some show jumping and see the RCMP do their famous "Musical Ride" they squeezed this competition between the jumping and the RCMP.)

 

[carter]

Thanks for the info, Lone Ranger. You learn something new every day. At least you do at the FL.

 

[carter]

104 Years Ago

1904 London - Muttonchops and a bowler.
(From the post about a newly discovered film of London Life in 1904)

 

[Topper]

Sorry Chaps last time i looked at rules

Derssage DOES allow Bowlers but only prior to 12.00. Whilst Top hats are standard theymust suite the style and dress of the rider. Whilst many "dressage" toppers are about 4 &1/4 crown height - thare is NO actual regulation requiring a specific crown height in "dressage" though "side saddle" (different from "saddle seat") does have a max height restriction.

Also - Saddle seat is not English, it is a US version of dressage.


Topper


p.s. Whilst i cannot promote my firm.. I will say that I am donating £5 for every Bowler I sell to the Royal British Legion. It again is that time of year as we run up to Remberance Sunday in November ( UK version of Veterans day)

 

[Lone_Ranger]

Sorry Chaps last time i looked at rules

Derssage DOES allow Bowlers but only prior to 12.00. Whilst Top hats are standard they must suite the style and dress of the rider. Whilst many "dressage" toppers are about 4 &1/4 crown height - thare is NO actual regulation requiring a specific crown height in "dressage" though "side saddle" (different from "saddle seat") does have a max height restriction.

Also - Saddle seat is not English, it is a US version of dressage.


Topper


p.s. Whilst i cannot promote my firm.. I will say that I am donating £5 for every Bowler I sell to the Royal British Legion. It again is that time of year as we run up to Remberance Sunday in November ( UK version of Veterans day)

Thanks Topper! I didn't know that a Bowler was an option. I've only ever seen a top hat used. (The tack shops have two versions; a Classic top hat, and a "German" version, that would seem to have a wider brim, and less curl, I guess that's a topic for another thread?)

You could say Saddle Seat is a US version of dressage. "English" in that context is referring to the tack. i.e. not a Western saddle, with a horn. No cowboy boots, and big hat. On this side of the Pond, we tend to call anything that isn't Western/Cowboy tack, as "English" [huh] Go figure!

 

[jamespowers]

And maybe what kind of prices he charges?

I finally got ahold of him. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap
He's sending me information and I'll report baqck with what I find out. I am thinking of having a brown cambridge bowler made with a 2 1/2" brim but we will see what I end up with. He didn't seem to think it would be a problem at all.

 

[Octavius]

This looks like a bowler to me.

 

[GWD]

One for the records

I found this one on ebay last week as a good priced buy it now.

It's from the Stetson store and it is dated but I can't read the year. I'm guessing 1920's I'm hoping maybe one of you computer gurus can.

The Roman Numerals MCMXV are 1915 but I doubt that's the date of manufacture.

I can read the December 24th part but the year is covered by the other stamp.
Also, it's not as nearly as in good as shape as the pictures indicate, there are several cracks and moth nibbles.

 

[indycop]

I finally got ahold of him. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap
He's sending me information and I'll report baqck with what I find out. I am thinking of having a brown cambridge bowler made with a 2 1/2" brim but we will see what I end up with. He didn't seem to think it would be a problem at all.

 

[jamespowers]

I found this one on ebay last week as a good priced buy it now.

It's from the Stetson store and it is dated but I can't read the year. I'm guessing 1920's I'm hoping maybe one of you computer gurus can.

The Roman Numerals MCMXV are 1915 but I doubt that's the date of manufacture.

I can read the December 24th part but the year is covered by the other stamp.
Also, it's not as nearly as in good as shape as the pictures indicate, there are several cracks and moth nibbles.

I could believe 1927 from the last two numbers there. 1920s Stetsons did indeed look like that. I have one myself that I had my son try on this afternoon.

 

[GWD]

I could believe 1927 from the last two numbers there. 1920s Stetsons did indeed look like that. I have one myself that I had my son try on this afternoon.

I think the 27 is a different stamp which reads "27 BOW"

 

[carter]

Gary, What is the rest of the information beneath the sweatband? I can make out D312198(?), DEC 24, and 27 BOW. Is there any more information?

 

[GWD]

I messed with the colors a bit and got some more detail, I'm still not sure if it's a 20's or 30's

The more I look at it, the more it looks like 1928 or 1929.

 

[UWS Cowboy]

I have a question.. I just bought a Bailey of Hollywood fur felt bowler and I noticed it's not even hard. The back of the crown is a bit hard, but if i push down slightly it gives pretty easily. The front and sides are very, very pliable. Just wondering are most fur felt bowlers now made this way? Or is this a problem? I'm just worried that it's not going to retain its shape for very long since it's already soft.

 

[Slim Portly]

UWSC, I own two Baileys which are as you describe, and it has been my somewhat limited experience from the few others that I have tried that the modern wool derby is indeed much softer than was originally intended, although I have not owned mine long enough to say how long they will hold their shape. If needs be there is spray hat stiffener which is readily available.

There are still, of course, many modern felt derbys which are properly stiff.

 

[UWS Cowboy]

UWSC, I own two Baileys which are as you describe, and it has been my somewhat limited experience from the few others that I have tried that the modern wool derby is indeed much softer than was originally intended, although I have not owned mine long enough to say how long they will hold their shape. If needs be there is spray hat stiffener which is readily available.

There are still, of course, many modern felt derbys which are properly stiff.

Thanks Slim. Glad to know I didn't get a defective Bailey. I just tried the steaming method I heard about, so now I'm letting it dry... Hopefully it's a bit stiffer then. If not, I'll look into the hat stiffener, which sounds very helpful. Thanks for the info on that.

 

[Dinerman]

Most vintage derbies are stiff beasts. I have a '30s knox you could practically drive nails with. Others aren't so much, but that's mainly due to the thickness of the felt.