The Bowler or Derby Hat

[newturnofphrase]

X-Ray Bowler

Interesting pic I found on Google images today:

By Nick Veasey http://www.20ltd.com/product/bowler-hat/

 

[bowlerman]

Love it! Beautiful color too.

Thanks! It's their "chocolate brown."

Interesting pic I found on Google images today:


By Nick Veasey http://www.20ltd.com/product/bowler-hat/

Neat!

 

[newturnofphrase]

Thanks! It's their "chocolate brown."

Neat!

Really like the shape of that hat Bowlerman, though I agree with you as to the material. My thought is that all hat types look better in fur than in wool, and even if that's not 100% true, fur is more durable and thus a better value if you want your hat to last. But honestly, it's still an excellent bowler.

 

[newturnofphrase]

Vintage xl lock & co bowler hat

A little over a week ago I went on to ebay to look at hats (something i've been avoiding lately in order to save money, as I'm sure many of you will understand). I had no intention of buying anything, but just thought I'd see what the prices were doing and what was available. Then I came across this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150747712251?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_11326wt_1396

Needless to say, for a vintage Lock & Co Bowler, in a large size, in what appeared to be near mint condition, this was a very reasonable price. I've always wanted a genuine Lock Bowler, but I've never been able to justify paying $500 for a new one given that they now use different materials in the lining, ribbons, and sweatband, and the brim curl is different. But this was a classic, probably from the 1950s or 60s, or perhaps earlier. I immediately purchased, then felt that sinking feeling of fear that I just blew a bunch of money and hadn't checked sizing with the seller. I was terrified that it would be too small when it arrived, something I've been disappointed by several times (I'm a little over 7 1/2 US, which is rare in vintage bowlers, and sellers tend to exaggerate the size).

Well it arrived today, and when i stuck it on my head it wouldn't fit down more than an inch. Heartbroken, I examined the hat and realized that it was actually a size that would fit me, but the previous owner had a long, narrow head. So I steamed the brim out until it was soft, then put it on and conformed it to my head shape. I spent about 20 minutes steaming and fiddling with the brim (which was also askew slightly). Now it fits quite comfortably. Everything is in great condition. Also, planning on getting some of those Lock & Co initials (if Lock will send me some) that are made to resemble embroidery, and put them inside where the old ones were.

The crown shape is quite interesting. It actually bows out up the sides, a little like a top hat. You can see the effect in the photos.

Quite pleased with how it turned out!

Edit: also, notice the 'established 1759' under the logo. They currently claim they were established in 1676, which is true-ish, as the hatshop James Lock inherited was founded then, though Lock's itself wasn't established until 1759. I wonder when they began using the earlier date...

 

[Brad Bowers]

Beautiful Bowler, and well worth the price! Glad it worked out for you!

That bell-shaped crown I believe was originally passed from the top hat to the Bowler, as I suspect the D'Orsay curl was. Crofut & Knapp always referred to the bell-shaped crown as an "English-style," I suppose to distinguish it from the more straight-sided crown, which they must've considered more American. Just guessing at all this, though.

Brad

 

[newturnofphrase]

Hey Brad,

Good to see you're posting on the lounge again!

As for the top hat Bowler evolution, that seems like a reasonable supposition, though the English themselves now seem to only manufacture the straight-sided ones (at least, such is my experience with modern Christys and Dunn & Co Bowlers).

-Andy

 

[bowlerman]

That's very cool, Andy! A bowler with some... flare!

 

[newturnofphrase]

That's very cool, Andy! A bowler with some... flare!

Speaking of flare, for the sake of vanity I asked and got Lock to agree to send me some of the old letters to stick inside and customize the hat.

Only 3 pieces of flare

 

[blitz1027]

My Goorin Bros. bowler is one of my favorite hats. Wanting to get a fur felt one though.

 

[zetwal]

Only 3 pieces of flare

The battle over the flare (Office Space) is really amusing. For those that haven't seen the movie, check it out.

 

[newturnofphrase]

The battle over the flare (Office Space) is really amusing. For those that haven't seen the movie, check it out.

Indeed it is a very good movie, and I thought it was funny given that the sides flare out & I'll be sticking little 'pieces of flare' on the inside.

Learned something new about Lock hats. Lock has confirmed that it was probably made between the 1960s and 1980s, as they stopped manufacturing lining with "1759" as the founding date some time around in 1982, when they switched to "1676" in all their labels, the year the shop was founded by Robert Davis.

Under the sweatband on my hat:

See the sale date on another hat from the 60s:

Given the pen writing on the sweatband (the number is 1/283), my thought was that my Bowler was sold on the 1st of February, 1983, and someone just forgot a slash as they were ringing it up. Which would make sense wrt the lining, as it would have been manufactured in the previous year (82) before they made the change. Also explains its relatively good condition as a feature of its youth.

 

[Viseguy]

A little over a week ago I went on to ebay to look at hats (something i've been avoiding lately in order to save money, as I'm sure many of you will understand). I had no intention of buying anything, but just thought I'd see what the prices were doing and what was available. Then I came across this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150747712251?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_11326wt_1396

... Quite pleased with how it turned out! ...

Congratulations, it's a fabulous hat! Looks great on you.

 

[zetwal]

Glad it worked out for you!

+1 (especially given the trouble you have had finding what you want in your size) :yo:

 

[newturnofphrase]

Thanks guys. Discovered this interesting little collection at the Met today:
http://metmuseum.org/collections/search-the-collections?ft=*&what=Derbies

Here's a photo of one of the hats (from the 1880s):

 

[bowlerman]

fantastic hats! wonderful examples-- thanks.
Interesting, however, that the Met would peg these all as wool. I have a hard time believing that.

I'm kind of smitten with this baby:
http://metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/80043363?rpp=20&pg=1&ft=*&what=Derbies&pos=4

 

[newturnofphrase]

fantastic hats! wonderful examples-- thanks.
Interesting, however, that the Met would peg these all as wool. I have a hard time believing that.

I'm kind of smitten with this baby:
http://metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/80043363?rpp=20&pg=1&ft=*&what=Derbies&pos=4

I noticed that one too, the colour and shape are really nice. I can basically guarantee almost all of them are fur-felt given their condition/age. Wool simply doesn't last that long. Certainly the Lock ones are fur as they never made wool bowlers. Presumably an uninformed staffer just assumed wool and categorized them that way.

 

[newturnofphrase]

And now some famous bowlers auctioned off a few years back. Not sure if these have been posted on this site before, but I think they're kind of interesting.

Malcolm McDowell's iconic hat from A Clockwork Orange. Sold for $8000.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4903543
A lightweight Dunn & Co from the 60s. If you own a lightweight dunn bowler from that era, it is likely a similar model.

Orson Welles' hat, which he claimed belonged to Charlie Chaplin (sounds like a story but I suppose it's possible). Sold for $375. Less than you'd pay for a modern Lock & Co Bowler. Just another reason for Orson to roll in his grave.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4903624

 

[bowlerman]

I noticed that one too, the colour and shape are really nice. I can basically guarantee almost all of them are fur-felt given their condition/age. Wool simply doesn't last that long. Certainly the Lock ones are fur as they never made wool bowlers. Presumably an uninformed staffer just assumed wool and categorized them that way.

More neat stuff. Thanks NTOP!

Am I alone in being a little disturbed by this wool thing? I mean the implicit public trust in all things Metropolitan... It's kind of bothersome that there might be an uninformed staffer assessing these in the first place.

 

[Aureliano]

Off topic here but check the Met's collection of fedoras.

http://metmuseum.org/collections/search-the-collections?ft=fedora

 

[bowlerman]

very cool! and yet same gripe!