The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[alanfgag]

Alanfgag, which are you calling the Colombo (by my numbers)? I thought I had posted all of the labels I can find. Also late 50's seems late for the one I have as #3... Is there any way to tell by the numbering?

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure which photos go with which hats. The Colombo (Columbus) is the liner illustration with the ocean scene - one of the hats from Salvatore Balbi's shop in Napoli. There is a theory that this velour line originated at the 500th anniversary of Columbus' birth in 1951. I do not know how long the mark was used. The manufacturing label that shows the color Amiata is typical of the later 1950s into the early 1960s. The label in the hat I just posted with Borsalino logo was used earlier in the 1950s, perhaps back into the late 1940s when Borsalino began producing hats again after WWII. Borsalino hats are notoriously difficult to date. I do not believe that any of the hats you've posted are earlier than 1950.

 

[besdor]

That Columbo lining has been used by Borsalino for years. We still use that liner on our Pesca (suede ) finish hats. What I found to be interesting was the first hat that had the cloth sweatband in the hat. Ive never seen one from the 1960's from an Italian hat store.

 

[alanfgag]

This one is from the mid to late 1950s:

 

[Chepstow]

Fantastic Borsa Alan, Great find and photos!
Eli, nice bundle of Borsalinos.


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[mayserwegener]

Borsalino Piuma (Feather) found today... another souvenir from Italy that has never been unpacked, much less worn. It has the signature lumps and bumps from 65 years in a triangular coffin. Lovely and light - 2 5/8" brim.

Great find!

 

[RJR]

Beautiful.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Alan interesting find! Your speciality Borsalinos in the cradle
Eli, some Borsalinos of various ages, the first is superb!

 

[eli104]

ALANFGAG, I assume now that you're calling the Colombo the two hats with the rope bands. Interestingly, these do NOT have any tags inside under the sweatbands. I'll check again later this evening, but I am 99% certain having run my hands around both of them, there is not even a remnant of a tag having been there before.

Also interesting from BESDOR, the hat with the cloth sweatband is crushable felt... the tag says "Marron" and the numbers U5004 38926. I read here somewhere that the tag numbering might have something to do with the year of manufacture, can this be true? Could this be from 1938?

I'm not sure if that makes sense though, because the nice grey felt (the one in the best condition) says "Amiata" and the numbers A3847 11593... so the numbering is out of order if that's a year marking. Possible???

The only one that sort of makes sense to be from the 1960's is the Torino, which was my father's, and my earliest memories are of him in the 60's either in that Torino (in the winter) or in a grand Boater that he unfortunately tossed during his later Alzheimer's years.

 

[tommyK]

Didn't we just go through this a couple of pages ago?

 

[alanfgag]

ALANFGAG, I assume now that you're calling the Colombo the two hats with the rope bands. Interestingly, these do NOT have any tags inside under the sweatbands. I'll check again later this evening, but I am 99% certain having run my hands around both of them, there is not even a remnant of a tag having been there before.

Also interesting from BESDOR, the hat with the cloth sweatband is crushable felt... the tag says "Marron" and the numbers U5004 38926. I read here somewhere that the tag numbering might have something to do with the year of manufacture, can this be true? Could this be from 1938?

Years were not part of the numbering scheme in 1938.

Colombo:

 

[Bob Roberts]

didn't we just go through this a couple of pages ago?

lol!!!

 

[eli104]

Didn't we just go through this a couple of pages ago?

I'm sorry guys, really... I'm new to the group. And with over 400 pages to read through (many with photos), it's hard to find even using the search tools. If you can point me to something, I'll happily step back until my next find

 

[alanfgag]

Eli, we are happy to have you here. With regard to searching the Lounge, it works much better to use Google - ask a question you'd like to have answered and include "the Fedora Lounge" in your query. It works quite well.

Borsalino hats dating before 1940 are rarer than hens teeth. We have a few of them documented in this thread. The manufacturing tags are slightly different than the early post-war versions. Style-wise and quality-wise, the hats from the 1930s and the 1950s are very similar. Borsalinos on eBay are routinely advertised as 1930s. In fact the first Borsalino I purchased was offered by a knowledgable vintage seller as a 1930s hat. I bought it (literally and figuratively) and once I became more familiar with the markings realized it to be from the late 1950s. It's still a wonderful hat.

Production of everyday hats at the factory in Alessandria must have been very limited during the war years and I believe that the factory sustained damage during the war. Tourism from America during the war years would also have been almost nil. Virtually all the vintage Borsalinos that we see here are from the late 1940s on, when production, importation and tourism resumed. Style-wise, the photos you posted are clearly Borsalino hats from the 1950s - 1960s (including the rarer Borsalino Fu Lazzaro). Any evidence to the contrary could only be gleaned from an old style manufacturing tag.

best,
Alan

 

[TheDane]

With regard to searching the Lounge, it works much better to use Google - ask a question you'd like to have answered and include "the Fedora Lounge" in your query. It works quite well

You are absolutely right, Alan. An even better way may be to use Google's own solution: "The site-specific search". If you add " site:thefedoralounge.com" (without the quotes) to the search-string, Google will only search that specific site. So if you want to search for "Borsalino Fu Lazzaro" on the lounge, you would write "Borsalino Fu Lazzaro site:thefedoralounge.com" in the search-field on Google. Works like a charm

You can check out this page for more on advanced searches, using Google.

 

[javadave61]

...site:thefedoralounge.com ... Works like a charm

And then after your search, click "images" and see an amazing collection of hats in one single place!

 

[Drdan]

My first felt Borsalino arrived the other day. It was offered on E-Bay (in Italy), by Cappelleria Melegari of Milano for 165 Euro delivered, which is about $182 U.S.

Before I purchased it, I called Melegari to ask a few questions, particularly regarding its availability in my size and color choice. The woman who took my call said she had to check the stockroom, and get back to me, which she did. The hat was surely NOS from last season, which explains the relatively low price.

I am pleased with the hat, although no superlatives come to mind. I am a size 58, and the hat is a bit snug, but will surely get stretched a bit with wear. The styling is nice and sleek, and the overall look is what I wanted. It's going to be used for cold, windy, and rainy fall and winter weather here in Rome. If the price was more than what it was, I would have opted for another hat by another maker, like the Akubra International Black.

This particular incarnation of the Borsalino Traveler has a 2 5/8" brim, a 4.0" crown, a stitched underwelt, a glued liner (polyester?), a leather hat band, and a leather sweatband. For the money, Borsalino should at least be stitching the liner into place instead of gluing it, which is a pretty tacky cost saving feature.

I'll see how this holds up... The geometry and color of the hat suits my face and my wardrobe very nicely. I may eventually have a higher quality one made by Art, using beaver felt, a sewn silk liner, a better quality sweatband, and have it fitted with a considerably nicer hat band. As far as other felt Borsalinos are concerned, I will be looking only for vintage ones.

Another BIG plus is that this particular model was spared that awfully tacky Borsalino logo hat band!

 

[besdor]

Drdan I dont want to dissapoint you but that hat is not the same as a Traveler style that you would buy here in the USA. Most stores here use what is called 39 quality . That hat is Marengo quality or 49 . Look under the lining ang you will see a white sticker. Its not a bad hat ,but its not the bargain of a lifetime.

 

[Drdan]

Drdan I dont want to dissapoint you but that hat is not the same as a Traveler style that you would buy here in the USA. Most stores here use what is called 39 quality . That hat is Marengo quality or 49 . Look under the lining ang you will see a white sticker. Its not a bad hat ,but its not the bargain of a lifetime.

Thanks for the quality explanation, besdor! For the overall look and quality I feel as if the $180 was well spent. I've seen Borsalino Travelers here for about $250, but at that price point, I would rather talk with a custom hatmaker. I'm not disappointed, but my next felt hat will surely be a considerable improvement.

 

[Drdan]

Here's the white sticker showing the "49" that besdor talked about, which denotes the lower quality.

My curiosity concerning various quality hat features has been piqued... What would the approximate cost to Borsalino to upgrade the hat if they wanted to:

1. Use a higher grade rabbit felt?
2. Use 100% beaver felt?
3. Use a nice silk liner?
4. Sew the liner inside the hat instead of gluing it?
5. Provide a heavy duty cardboard hatbox?
6. Use a really attractive high quality hat band?

Next hat is definitely going to be a custom!

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Daniel,
you have to inquire the Borsalino production staff and the marketing board! ;-)