The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[Rabbit]

I'm no expert so let me see if I understand this a little better. Are you showing that the Film is more loosely felted or that it is not as well pounced or both.

As far as I know, rabbit/ hare felt doesn't felt as densely with the modern felting techniques as it did with the old techniques involving mercury. Beaver felt generally felts more densely, or perhaps I should say the possibilty is there even with the modern techniques.
The pouncing on the modern Borso's felt is actuall quite good, but the felting itself is a limiting factor in what can be done with it when doing the finish.

 

[Landman]

Probably no one "best". If they have a color you want, Bencraft Hats has the best price.

Thanks. I appreciate it.

 

[Chepstow]

Modern production Borsalino versus vintage and modern custom hats:

Rabbit, thanks for the great comparison. Very interresting to see the difference between the felts!

 

[St. Valentine]

Quite interesting! Now I am really looking forward to receiving my first VS to compare it to my Borsa. After all, it´s the name of all things that makes a Borsalino a must have for me. I always wanted to own this legend.

Frank

 

[mayserwegener]

As far as I know, rabbit/ hare felt doesn't felt as densely with the modern felting techniques as it did with the old techniques involving mercury. Beaver felt generally felts more densely, or perhaps I should say the possibilty is there even with the modern techniques.
The pouncing on the modern Borso's felt is actuall quite good, but the felting itself is a limiting factor in what can be done with it when doing the finish.

Do you know when they stopped using mercury? The quality went down when the company was sold and the old factory was shut down in the early 1980s. The Italians (Borsalino, Barbisio, Panizza) in general made very high quality hats into the 1970s.

 

[Joshbru3]

Do you know when they stopped using mercury? The quality went down when the company was sold and the old factory was shut down in the early 1980s. The Italians (Borsalino, Barbisio, Panizza) in general made very high quality hats into the 1970s.

Its always been my understanding that Mercury was NOT the reason that vintage felt was so wonderful. Mercury was used for combing out the pelts in order to sheer the fur off the pelts. It had nothing to do with the finishing process. Besides, the use of Mercury was essentially stopped in the 30's. I forgot the exact date that most hatters stopped using it, but it was it was fairly early. The Borso's from the mid 30's, 40's, 50's, etc didn't use Mercury and they were outstanding hats. I know this issue has been discussed over and over again on the lounge. The MAJOR two differences that are different today is the use of synthetic shellac verses natural shellac, and the density of the felt due to changes in the process (Whatever that may be).

BTW: Most of those early 1900's Stetsons that we all love were not beaver, they were rabbit and wild hare. They used Nutria also, but it seems to be that very few hats from the "golden era" of hats were actually 100% beaver.

 

[Rabbit]

Its always been my understanding that Mercury was NOT the reason that vintage felt was so wonderful. Mercury was used for combing out the pelts in order to sheer the fur off the pelts. It had nothing to do with the finishing process. Besides, the use of Mercury was essentially stopped in the 30's. I forgot the exact date that most hatters stopped using it, but it was it was fairly early. The Borso's from the mid 30's, 40's, 50's, etc didn't use Mercury and they were outstanding hats. I know this issue has been discussed over and over again on the lounge. The MAJOR two differences that are different today is the use of synthetic shellac verses natural shellac, and the density of the felt due to changes in the process (Whatever that may be).

BTW: Most of those early 1900's Stetsons that we all love were not beaver, they were rabbit and wild hare. They used Nutria also, but it seems to be that very few hats from the "golden era" of hats were actually 100% beaver.

Thanks for clarifying that, Josh.
I've read about these points, too. It's really a long discussion, this whole topic - we're basically trying to put together the bits and pieces.
I believe the use of mercury was completely banned in the earliest 1940s, and was already used less and less in the 1930s.
Thanks for pointing out the importance of the shellac factor!
+1 to your remark about the 100% beaver hats. They could do wonders with rabbit felt and blended felts back in the day...

Edit:
At least until the early 50s, not only Borsalino but also American hat companies (Resistol with its extremely dense Kitten Finish, for instance) were still producing outstanding felts, which sort of speaks in favor of your point about the mercury not being the critical factor.

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks for clarifying that, Josh.
I've read about these points, too. It's really a long discussion, this whole topic - we're basically trying to put together the bits and pieces.
I believe the use of mercury was completely banned in the earliest 1940s, and was already used less and less in the 1930s.
Thanks for pointing out the importance of the shellac factor!
+1 to your remark about the 100% beaver hats. They could do wonders with rabbit felt and blended felts back in the day...

Edit:
At least until the early 50s, not only Borsalino but also American hat companies (Resistol with its extremely dense Kitten Finish, for instance) were still producing outstanding felts, which sort of speaks in favor of your point about the mercury not being the critical factor.

Also Germany, France, Austria, ect. The Italian makers kept high overall quality (felt to finished hat) into the late 1970s very early 1980s.

 

[rlk]

1917 soft hats for USA

 

[Aureliano]

Love the Londres!

 

[Joshbru3]

Love the Londres!

+1!!

But check out that wonderful winged ribbon on the Brindisi! I seem to be putting winged ribbon all my hats now.

 

[hatophile]

I'd take any of 'em!

 

[alanfgag]

I'd take any of 'em!

+1... but look at that thin ribbon. The character of those side dents expresses so beautifully (even with the moire distraction to the images) why we love old felt so much.

thanks for posting all these great old scans today, Robert.

 

[zetwal]

thanks for posting all these great old scans today, Robert.

Wonderful ...

 

[Chepstow]

Wonderful ...

+1

 

[Aureliano]

Long overdue, here it is the Borsalino Pocket Hat I bought from Tonyb (thanks again!)
Color Ontano (Alder) Very soft, almost creamy felt, softer than my featherweight Colombo but not as light. This one weighs 2.8 Oz. Vs. The Colombo at 2.6 Oz.
Corrugated, un-reeded sweatband and a super cool liner. Fits me like a glove. Score!

 

[RobStC]

Borsalino Ontano

Looks very nice, Alejandro, and in lovely condition. I do like the Alder colour (same as that one you sold to me a while back) and the Ecosan is a nicely proportioned hat (I have one but in Olivo colour), with that thin back-bound brim binding that Rabbit was so taken with on the Bismuto Natalsca.....

Anyway, great catch at a super price, so enjoy it!

RobStC

 

[Aureliano]

Looks very nice, Alejandro, and in lovely condition. I do like the Alder colour (same as that one you sold to me a while back) and the Ecosan is a nicely proportioned hat (I have one but in Olivo colour), with that thin back-bound brim binding that Rabbit was so taken with on the Bismuto Natalsca.....

Anyway, great catch at a super price, so enjoy it!

RobStC

Yeah, I remember the one I sold you and I'm so glad that I found this one in the same color. You're right, the Ecosan seem to be all nicely proportioned. Here's a shot of the thin, back-bound brim for you, Rabbit and Marc Chevalier (In case he's lurking around) who seemed to like it the most among all.

 

[St. Valentine]

That´s one fantastic Borsa, Aureliano! :eusa_clap What a pity there are not too much vintage hats to find on german Ebay in my size.... [huh]

Frank

 

[Chepstow]

That´s one fantastic Borsa, Aureliano!

Frank

+1