The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[DexCarther]

Borsalino ~ Maurice L. Rothschild ~ 7 1/4 ~ With Original Price Tag ????

Hello,
I have a Borsalino I am looking for information on. This seems to be the place to do so! I can tell it is a Borsalino imported by Maurice L. Rothschild & Co. of Chicago. It has the MLC price tag in it with an original price of $20.00. Anyone know more about this hat? Its age? Its value? It is in excelent condition!

The tag inside states:

1402P 73019 C 7 1/4
Cerere c/ Ossido "Gatergu ue" ( hand written )

MLR price sticker with $20 on it.

Tried to post pics but the site said I wasnt authorized yet.


Thanks, Dex Carther

 

[Aureliano]

Try Bencraft hats in Brooklyn. Same Borsalinos as JJ without 5th Ave. prices.

 

[gtdean48]

...
Tried to post pics but the site said I wasnt authorized yet.


Thanks, Dex Carther

Welcome Dex.
You don't get authorized for photo posting, just Private Messaging.
Posting photos involves a picture hosting site like Photobucket & using IMG tags in you text.
The FAQ is a bit misleading in talking about attachments, which aren't allowed here for photos.

 

[VetPsychWars]

Okay... I'm new here, but I just wanted to relate a Borsalino hat story: I lived in San Francisco for a while in the mid-80's and there was a small shop in North Beach that sold Borsalino's. I tried on a gorgeous cobalt-blue Borsalino and fell in love... but, alas, being quite skint at the time it was either eat or buy the hat. I regret the food choice to this day! I wonder if I could ever find a cobalt-blue Borsalino again?

On the bright side- I'm off to New York next weekend, so I'll be visiting J.J. Hat Center to check out their inventory... I might yet join the Borsalino Brotherhood!

This is the navy blue Alessandria I got from Bencraft. Creased it myself.

Tom

 

[JLMoore3rd]

Okay- that's a damn fine looking hat... I'll be heading to Bencraft!

 

[VetPsychWars]

Today I just received a taupe Alessandria from Bencraft. This was a color that was hard to pin down; as you know, lighting means everything with color. These pictures I took outside in the afternoon sun. On my calibrated monitor, they're right on.

The first picture is how the hat was received from Bencraft. While they represent it as an open crown, the two I have received were shallowly creased. This is, in my mind, not exactly a bad thing, because you can use the existing crease as a guide to creating your own. Also, in the before picture, the color is accurately represented. Not sure how it will appear on your monitor but the color is definitely green. In fact, it looks a lot like the green of a Marine Corps uniform.

This next picture is after I creased the hat how I like it. I sprayed some room-temperature water on it, and shaped it how I like. Then I placed it in front of a small fan to get some room-temperature air blowing across it. Since it was green, I put it next to my bluegrass green Campdraft. There is a difference, though it is not huge. I'm already thinking that the Borsalino will be a dressier alternative (business casual, work) and the Campdraft will be casual (jeans, not work).

The Borsalino is on the right, in case you needed a hint!

Interesting to note the difference between the navy blue Alessandria and the taupe. The navy is a touch stiffer, and the sweat-bands are different... the black sweatband in the navy is a little stiffer, and the brown sweat-band in the taupe is a little softer. I suspect the black one will soften with wear, as it has already started to.

Had I known the taupe was so green (it doesn't look green on the Bencraft site) I might not have chosen it but now that it's here I will definitely wear it as it is a good, comfortable, lightweight hat. Much lighter than the Campdraft, which also seems "larger than life" sometimes.

Here is a picture of all of my Borsalinos:

On the left is a vintage warm-grey hat. I waffle on whether I want one that light in color or maybe do I want one that's darker? Today I am more wanting it than not but that changes. Here's the info on the label:

2037 P 15634 7 1/8
PALLADIO

In the middle is the navy blue, and on the right is the taupe. I didn't crease it that crookedly, it's the lighting.

All in all I am happy with the new Borsalino Alessandria. I believe I will write Bencraft to see if they can special-order me one in silver belly because compared to the Borsalino, the new Stetson Stratoliner just does not measure up. I know I could get a Campdraft in that color, but I really like the Borsalino.

Hope you enjoyed my posting.

Tom

 

[zetwal]

Tried to post pics but the site said I wasnt authorized yet.

Not authorized? Just load your pics to a host site (just as photobucket) and copy and paste the IMG codes for the pictures you want to share into your Lounge post. They will then appear for all to see.

Welcome!

 

[danofarlington]

Today I just received a taupe Alessandria from Bencraft. This was a color that was hard to pin down; as you know, lighting means everything with color. These pictures I took outside in the afternoon sun. On my calibrated monitor, they're right on.

The first picture is how the hat was received from Bencraft. While they represent it as an open crown, the two I have received were shallowly creased. This is, in my mind, not exactly a bad thing, because you can use the existing crease as a guide to creating your own. Also, in the before picture, the color is accurately represented. Not sure how it will appear on your monitor but the color is definitely green. In fact, it looks a lot like the green of a Marine Corps uniform.

That's a nice one, good color. I like Alessandrias.

 

[bobm]

Nice hats, Tom. Funny how hats go; my first posy here was in the classifieds section, to sell my Allessandria - I just never, ever felt that hat suited me, beautiful though it surely is. Mine was below - the same color as yours - a wonderful green, but mine had a matching color edging around the brim, rather than brown.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?57146-Borsolino-Allessandria

Bob

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I'm interested. Has someone cracked the long sought code of the paper labels? Or are we still speculating?

I've seen several posts recently by disparate FLoungers either seeking pics of labels in order to date Borsalinos, or doubting with apparent confidence speculated dates based on the paper labels. Is there anything solid here, or is it still guesswork and gut feeling?

Based on the paper label + construction I would say late 50s early 60s. Could also be a bit older or a bit newer.

Borsalino Feather Weight.
This one belonged to my wife's grandpa and now it's mine. Perfect condition, truly light, light weight from the great Salvatore Balbi shop. Could anyone hint a date for this based on the paper inside label?

 

[mayserwegener]

I'm interested. Has someone cracked the long sought code of the paper labels? Or are we still speculating?

I've seen several posts recently by disparate FLoungers either seeking pics of labels in order to date Borsalinos, or doubting with apparent confidence speculated dates based on the paper labels. Is there anything solid here, or is it still guesswork and gut feeling?

Based on sample data I think it is possible to group them in date ranges. The Borsalino name on the side of the paper label points to early 1950s or older. The Borsalino name is dropped but the general label design remains the same into the 1970s. Around the mid 1970s the label changes and the production year was added. I am sure RLK (others) can add more but this is the general idea. I have a good sample range of German market Echter Borsalinos and the paper label follows the same pattern.

 

[mflemming]

I believe I will write Bencraft to see if they can special-order me one in silver belly because compared to the Borsalino, the new Stetson Stratoliner just does not measure up. I know I could get a Campdraft in that color, but I really like the Borsalino.

Tom

Please post the info when you find out; I might be interested also. Thanks!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I get that.

How were the dates arrived at for the dropping of the Borsalino name on the inner label? From definitively dated examples? (apologies, i've been resting a while and haven't kept up with the discussion)

I have an absolute surefire example from 1938 that I can look at tonight. (The family left Paris in 1938 never to return. The hat is from a Paris shop. I do not have documents to prove this but bought the hat from the man's wife.)

I am glad to see that people appear to have stopped trying to date old Borsalinos by the numbers on these labels (good for newer ones, not for older), or by general style or feature information (always misleading). This was always very misleading due to Borsalino's notorious range and timescale-of-use of liners, labels, sweatbands etc.

Based on sample data I think it is possible to group them in date ranges. The Borsalino name on the side of the paper label points to early 1950s or older. The Borsalino name is dropped but the general label design remains the same into the 1970s. Around the mid 1970s the label changes and the production year was added. I am sure RLK (others) can add more but this is the general idea. I have a good sample range of German market Echter Borsalinos and the paper label follows the same pattern.

 

[Brent Hutto]

VetPsychWars,

I tend to see green in places other people don't. My Alessandria is a couple years older than yours but came from Bencraft in 2009. In natural lighting I do not detect more than just the very slightest tinge of green in mine. It plays more on the brown end of the "taupe" spectrum than the gray end. Of course in certain indoor lighting that very faint green becomes more easily noticed. But mine isn't Marine Corps green by any means.

They must vary slightly with dye lots and such. At any rate, wonderful crease you've gotten to hold in yours. Seems very head-roomy for those of us with the big noggin...

 

[mayserwegener]

I get that.

How were the dates arrived at for the dropping of the Borsalino name on the inner label? From definitively dated examples? (apologies, i've been resting a while and haven't kept up with the discussion)

I have an absolute surefire example from 1938 that I can look at tonight. (The family left Paris in 1938 never to return. The hat is from a Paris shop. I do not have documents to prove this but bought the hat from the man's wife.)

I am glad to see that people appear to have stopped trying to date old Borsalinos by the numbers on these labels (good for newer ones, not for older), or by general style or feature information (always misleading). This was always very misleading due to Borsalino's notorious range and timescale-of-use of liners, labels, sweatbands etc.

Regarding the Borsalino on the side of the label there are plenty of examples in this thread. There are a couple exceptions (early 1950s) but I am on the side those hats were reworked or altered along the way but not interested in rehashing that discussion.

 

[VetPsychWars]

VetPsychWars,

I tend to see green in places other people don't. My Alessandria is a couple years older than yours but came from Bencraft in 2009. In natural lighting I do not detect more than just the very slightest tinge of green in mine. It plays more on the brown end of the "taupe" spectrum than the gray end. Of course in certain indoor lighting that very faint green becomes more easily noticed. But mine isn't Marine Corps green by any means.

They must vary slightly with dye lots and such. At any rate, wonderful crease you've gotten to hold in yours. Seems very head-roomy for those of us with the big noggin...

On my way back from lunch, since it's cloudy, I snapped this picture with my iPhone. It's an accurate representation. I see it as mostly grey with a green tint. Taupe is supposed to be pinkish... so I agree that there must be some variation in dye lot.

Here in my office, it definitely looks green under the fluorescent lights.

Tom

 

[Aureliano]

looks pretty gray in all 5 of my monitors.

 

[zetwal]

On my way back from lunch, since it's cloudy, I snapped this picture with my iPhone. It's an accurate representation. I see it as mostly grey with a green tint.

In that picture, I see it as grey green, or green grey. Either way, in my view, it does have a strong green cast.

 

[monbla256]

On my way back from lunch, since it's cloudy, I snapped this picture with my iPhone. It's an accurate representation. I see it as mostly grey with a green tint. Taupe is supposed to be pinkish... so I agree that there must be some variation in dye lot.

Here in my office, it definitely looks green under the fluorescent lights.

Tom

Has a definate green cast to the grey .

 

[Lefty]

These hats make me angry. I want them to fit, but they just won't.

This one will need a little work to straighten out. It's so light that the felt is hard to shape.