The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[Blare]

The most off putting aspect, among many, is the square edge on the brim. It looks like it was trimmed with an exacto knife and the edges not buffed smooth/rounded.

Agreed! Definitely looks trimmed. The ribbon treatment is nice though.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Maybe I have joined the Brotherhood?... ???... ‍

---

Got this pretty little black trilby with a Qualita Superiore liner and gold print on the sweat that seems to be that of Borsalino, plus a cute little "feet" pin on the bow.

(Hat sits a a little high in the photos because of being too small, but pretty sure it's close enough for stretching.)

There are some very weird things about this hat though. Is it altogether fake? pretending to be of higher quality than advertised? or is it only victim to a half-assed repair? I am too new the learning about good hats to know what I've got here.

---

The liner says Qualita Superiore, and the sweat says XXX. So, I am expecting an extremely high quality felt with a fair amount of beaver. Seemingly in line with that:

The felt is in great condition, with rich black color and only some extremely minor indications of use and aging. Namely there is shrinkage compared to the indicated size (we'll get to size labeling later), very few moth bites that are quite shallow, some discolored matting on the bottom of the brim in the back, and bleaching of the surface level felt along the raw edge.

(The black color shows up better in the selfies, but here are some close-ups.)

I can measure 2.5mm thickness at the edge of the felt. It feels exceedingly sturdy, yet also flexible. I can twist the hat in pretty much any direction, and it will pop back into shape instantly.

But not yet having touched any other hat "beaver" hat, nor any other Borsalino, I don't have a clue whether this is what 3X Borsalino should feel like. And so this is where it starts to get awkward.

First is the "XXX" even existing on the sweat. From what I can gather, Borsalino is not currently X-labeling anything. Was that something they did in the past?

Combine that with the gold paint being ridiculously blurry, and I've got myself what looks like a red flag.

So I'm going to blindly assume for a moment that there is no problem there, and continue with describing the the strange repair.

With the size label missing, we've got the size now hand written (in ballpoint pin?) on the liner.

We've got non-uniform, light-colored stitching that seems to be aimed at securing the wrapper around the reed. Totally mystifying, because the reed it is supposed to wrap is missing in action.

Also the sweatband is held to the hat by quite sparsely stitched, very uneven, black thread, but I forgot to get a picture of that.

Big long, visible thread securing the ribbon.

We've got the lazy stitching of the liner to the hat. (I would expect pretty loose and sparse stitching here once the liner has been out, but this looks super-extra-lazy to my eyes.)

The wackiest part is in the liner. Sewn in behind the logo, we find what appears to be a page from an Ecuadorian newspaper stacked on what looks like perhaps a business' Financial Report sewn behind the cap.

If there were any paper labels in here, they are now lost to history, and no printing on the inside of the crown.

I definitely think I have a high quality hat here. And it seems like someone trying to fake something would have avoided such obvious attention-grabbers as the newspaper+financials sewed into the liner. What do you think?

There was a time when the Bollman Hat Co. had the license to make Borsalinos in the US. Those hats were pretty horrible and a stain on the Borsalino name. The poor sweatband printing looks a lot like the Bollman Borsalino I once had.

 

[Steve1857]

Maybe I have joined the Brotherhood?... ???... ‍

---

Got this pretty little black trilby with a Qualita Superiore liner and gold print on the sweat that seems to be that of Borsalino, plus a cute little "feet" pin on the bow.

(Hat sits a a little high in the photos because of being too small, but pretty sure it's close enough for stretching.)

There are some very weird things about this hat though. Is it altogether fake? pretending to be of higher quality than advertised? or is it only victim to a half-assed repair? I am too new the learning about good hats to know what I've got here.

---

The liner says Qualita Superiore, and the sweat says XXX. So, I am expecting an extremely high quality felt with a fair amount of beaver. Seemingly in line with that:

The felt is in great condition, with rich black color and only some extremely minor indications of use and aging. Namely there is shrinkage compared to the indicated size (we'll get to size labeling later), very few moth bites that are quite shallow, some discolored matting on the bottom of the brim in the back, and bleaching of the surface level felt along the raw edge.

(The black color shows up better in the selfies, but here are some close-ups.)

I can measure 2.5mm thickness at the edge of the felt. It feels exceedingly sturdy, yet also flexible. I can twist the hat in pretty much any direction, and it will pop back into shape instantly.

But not yet having touched any other hat "beaver" hat, nor any other Borsalino, I don't have a clue whether this is what 3X Borsalino should feel like. And so this is where it starts to get awkward.

First is the "XXX" even existing on the sweat. From what I can gather, Borsalino is not currently X-labeling anything. Was that something they did in the past?

Combine that with the gold paint being ridiculously blurry, and I've got myself what looks like a red flag.

So I'm going to blindly assume for a moment that there is no problem there, and continue with describing the the strange repair.

With the size label missing, we've got the size now hand written (in ballpoint pin?) on the liner.

We've got non-uniform, light-colored stitching that seems to be aimed at securing the wrapper around the reed. Totally mystifying, because the reed it is supposed to wrap is missing in action.

Also the sweatband is held to the hat by quite sparsely stitched, very uneven, black thread, but I forgot to get a picture of that.

Big long, visible thread securing the ribbon.

We've got the lazy stitching of the liner to the hat. (I would expect pretty loose and sparse stitching here once the liner has been out, but this looks super-extra-lazy to my eyes.)

The wackiest part is in the liner. Sewn in behind the logo, we find what appears to be a page from an Ecuadorian newspaper stacked on what looks like perhaps a business' Financial Report sewn behind the cap.

If there were any paper labels in here, they are now lost to history, and no printing on the inside of the crown.

I definitely think I have a high quality hat here. And it seems like someone trying to fake something would have avoided such obvious attention-grabbers as the newspaper+financials sewed into the liner. What do you think?

Sorry to say, but that looks nothing like a genuine Borsalino.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Any help on dating this?

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Any help on dating this?

View attachment 487620 View attachment 487621 View attachment 487622 View attachment 487625 View attachment 487624

Nice one, Brent: I would say 40s, but maybe you should wait for the others who know rather than guess.

 

[Francesco1992]

Hello everyone,

I do not want to disturb the very interesting Brent's post here, but since he would love to know the time period of his wonderful hat, I will post something here on the (almost) same topic.
I have recently found this superb Trionfo hat in black, size 6 French Punti (59cm), which as all Trionfo felts I have seen is really wonderful. It was sold by the hat shop of Alessandro Lampugnani in Milano (which has unfortunately disappeared many decades ago).
It has also got the Trionfo logo stamped on its sweatband which is original and very particular; it is obviously a "very used" hat showing signs of wear (and possibly still some work to do on it) but, since it is so comfortable to wear, it has the bow on its back and it has suddenly become one of my favorites among all.
The hat has shows a double celled paper label in the interior part, so I would tend to date it around the half of the 1930s: do you agree with me or not? I hope to get some news from you as soon as possible. Thank you all in advance!

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Hello everyone,

I do not want to disturb the very interesting Brent's post here, but since he would love to know the time period of his wonderful hat, I will post something here on the (almost) same topic.
I have recently found this superb Trionfo hat in black, size 6 French Punti (59cm), which as all Trionfo felts I have seen is really wonderful. It was sold by the hat shop of Alessandro Lampugnani in Milano (which has unfortunately disappeared many decades ago).
It has also got the Trionfo logo stamped on its sweatband which is original and very particular; it is obviously a "very used" hat showing signs of wear (and possibly still some work to do on it) but, since it is so comfortable to wear, it has the bow on its back and it has suddenly become one of my favorites among all.
The hat has shows a double celled paper label in the interior part, so I would tend to date it around the half of the 1930s: do you agree with me or not? I hope to get some news from you as soon as possible. Thank you all in advance!

Wonderful hats fluttering in by the minute: the brim design is spectacular, Francesco!
I'll add my two cents on the dating here as well, before the pros surely have more accurate information:
I once learned that the labels with separate size label are late 30s to early 40s - at least for the German market.

 

[skylize]

Maybe I have joined the Brotherhood?... ???... ‍

---

Got this pretty little black trilby with a Qualita Superiore liner and gold print on the sweat that seems to be that of Borsalino, plus a cute little "feet" pin on the bow.

(Hat sits a a little high in the photos because of being too small, but pretty sure it's close enough for stretching.)

There are some very weird things about this hat though. Is it altogether fake? pretending to be of higher quality than advertised? or is it only victim to a half-assed repair? I am too new the learning about good hats to know what I've got here.

---

The liner says Qualita Superiore, and the sweat says XXX. So, I am expecting an extremely high quality felt with a fair amount of beaver. Seemingly in line with that:

The felt is in great condition, with rich black color and only some extremely minor indications of use and aging. Namely there is shrinkage compared to the indicated size (we'll get to size labeling later), very few moth bites that are quite shallow, some discolored matting on the bottom of the brim in the back, and bleaching of the surface level felt along the raw edge.

(The black color shows up better in the selfies, but here are some close-ups.)

I can measure 2.5mm thickness at the edge of the felt. It feels exceedingly sturdy, yet also flexible. I can twist the hat in pretty much any direction, and it will pop back into shape instantly.

But not yet having touched any other hat "beaver" hat, nor any other Borsalino, I don't have a clue whether this is what 3X Borsalino should feel like. And so this is where it starts to get awkward.

First is the "XXX" even existing on the sweat. From what I can gather, Borsalino is not currently X-labeling anything. Was that something they did in the past?

Combine that with the gold paint being ridiculously blurry, and I've got myself what looks like a red flag.

So I'm going to blindly assume for a moment that there is no problem there, and continue with describing the the strange repair.

With the size label missing, we've got the size now hand written (in ballpoint pin?) on the liner.

We've got non-uniform, light-colored stitching that seems to be aimed at securing the wrapper around the reed. Totally mystifying, because the reed it is supposed to wrap is missing in action.

Also the sweatband is held to the hat by quite sparsely stitched, very uneven, black thread, but I forgot to get a picture of that.

Big long, visible thread securing the ribbon.

We've got the lazy stitching of the liner to the hat. (I would expect pretty loose and sparse stitching here once the liner has been out, but this looks super-extra-lazy to my eyes.)

The wackiest part is in the liner. Sewn in behind the logo, we find what appears to be a page from an Ecuadorian newspaper stacked on what looks like perhaps a business' Financial Report sewn behind the cap.

If there were any paper labels in here, they are now lost to history, and no printing on the inside of the crown.

I definitely think I have a high quality hat here. And it seems like someone trying to fake something would have avoided such obvious attention-grabbers as the newspaper+financials sewed into the liner. What do you think?

Borsalino hats have been made under license in other countries in the past. In the USa it was Bollman . In Columbia SA it was Colfieltros . Its realy not that hard to tell the difference between the origianl and the other versions. The quality is the first way to see the difference. USA made versions were stiffer and could not say "made in Italy" . The South American versions were trimmed terribly and also could not sat made in Italy. Colfieltros is out of business since 2007 and Bollman lost the license years ago .

Could this be a Colfieltros?

 

[steur]

Any help on dating this?

View attachment 487620 View attachment 487621 View attachment 487622 View attachment 487625 View attachment 487624

It's style certainly suggests a forties hat. The label is of the 1936-1953 variety, but we don't have enough dated examples of the coloured labels to pinpoint it more precisely with some authority. Cola is a great colour.

 

[steur]

Hello everyone,

I do not want to disturb the very interesting Brent's post here, but since he would love to know the time period of his wonderful hat, I will post something here on the (almost) same topic.
I have recently found this superb Trionfo hat in black, size 6 French Punti (59cm), which as all Trionfo felts I have seen is really wonderful. It was sold by the hat shop of Alessandro Lampugnani in Milano (which has unfortunately disappeared many decades ago).
It has also got the Trionfo logo stamped on its sweatband which is original and very particular; it is obviously a "very used" hat showing signs of wear (and possibly still some work to do on it) but, since it is so comfortable to wear, it has the bow on its back and it has suddenly become one of my favorites among all.
The hat has shows a double celled paper label in the interior part, so I would tend to date it around the half of the 1930s: do you agree with me or not? I hope to get some news from you as soon as possible. Thank you all in advance!

Wonderful hats fluttering in by the minute: the brim design is spectacular, Francesco!
I'll add my two cents on the dating here as well, before the pros surely have more accurate information:
I once learned that the labels with separate size label are late 30s to early 40s - at least for the German market.

It's a great find, Francesco. Like Matt said: the current theory is that the ones with the separate size stickers are the earlier ones of the 1936-1953 period. The styling of the hat seems to support that. The textured wide sweatband, the more elaborate liner, the backbow and the crisp printing on both liner and sweatband point towards mid to late thirties. Landasfo is another new model name, which is always fun to see.

 

[skylize]

Well unfortunately it is way too small for me and in pretty rough shape. But at least this hat is actually a Borsalino.

I planned only a quick brush off before taking initial photos. Then I looked at the tags inside and found "COBALTO" which I assume should be a blue color.

I would swear it was black, so decided on a first pass scrub down before continuing. After a heavy wet scrub and time to dry, it still looked black. Then I took it out in the sun for photos, and sure enough, it certainly has a visibly blue hue to it.

Way darker than anything I might call "navy". If I did not already expect it to be blue, I likely wouldn't have even noticed. The putrid green tinge to what used to be a black ribbon is way more not noticeable than the the blue in the felt. Any apparent blueness is completely lost without the help of midday sunlight.

 

[skylize]

So now, lets meet the Serikon, With a 5-1/2" crown when opened up and a brim just shy of 2" all the way around.

 

[skylize]

Measures in at 54cm. So I assume it is slightly shrunken, with the unreadable numeral on the size tag being a 4.

Really easy to see the corrugated sweatband because the seam is broken there. The surface area of the sweat is in pretty good shape, despite all the gold worn off the logo. But it seems pretty fragile at the seam with some damage and cracking. The logo reads "Original House" in English.

Liner is yellowed and noticably dirty and spotted. But the logo and Qualitá Superiore designation are plenty clear to see.

The font of "Baskin" looks roughly the same as on this promotional postcard, just with different, more traditional and toned-down serifs. So safe guess that it was sold by the Al Baskin clothing store.

Images taken from closed product listing 41436208 on https://www.hippostcard.com/ .

Now, who wants to place bets on its age?
<Edit: As noted by @steur , this 1979 hat fits in the range where the 2 digit year is clearly listed on the factory label. So betting rounds are now closed. >

 

[MikeinRome]

Black Borsalino Homburg, Extra Extra Superiore. Style is Gulaela. It came in box shown. Couldn't pass up buying it because they were selling the hat and box for only about half what the empty box alone was worth.

 

[MikeinRome]

Borsalino, 2 1/2 inch brim. Color Sfinge, style is Gorasgu, I think it says. This hat is very similar to another Sfinge hat I posted a while ago, but I think the brim on this hat is 1/4 inch wider.

 

[steur]

Well unfortunately it is way too small for me and in pretty rough shape. But at least this hat is actually a Borsalino.

I planned only a quick brush off before taking initial photos. Then I looked at the tags inside and found "COBALTO" which I assume should be a blue color.

I would swear it was black, so decided on a first pass scrub down before continuing. After a heavy wet scrub and time to dry, it still looked black. Then I took it out in the sun for photos, and sure enough, it certainly has a visibly blue hue to it.

Way darker than anything I might call "navy". If I did not already expect it to be blue, I likely wouldn't have even noticed. The putrid green tinge to what used to be a black ribbon is way more not noticable than the the blue in the felt. Any apparent blueness is completely lost without the help of midday sunlight.

A cool find. A lot of the dark blue colours from basically all of the hat manufacturers can be hard to distinguish from black. I have several blue hats sold to me as being black. This label type helps dating the hat in a big way: it's from 1979. The first two numbers of the number in the upper right corner are the production year. They were supposed to have been used from 1974 until 1984, but we've only ever seen examples from 1976 until 1983.

Measures in at 54cm. So I assume it is slightly shrunken, with the unreadable numeral on the size tag being a 4.

Really easy to see the corrugated sweatband because the seam is broken there. The surface area of the sweat is in pretty good shape, despite all the gold worn off the logo. But it seems pretty fragile at the seam with some damage and cracking. The logo reads "Original House" in English.

Liner is yellowed and noticably dirty and spotted. But the logo and Qualitá Superiore designation are plenty clear to see.

The font of "Baskin" looks roughly the same as on this promotional postcard, just with different, more traditional and toned-down serifs. So safe guess that it was sold by the Al Baskin clothing store. Now, who wants to place bets on its age?

These Serikon Borsalinos are a bit of a puzzler. I suspect they may have been made in Canada under license, even though the hats don't say so. No examples from Europe are known and the sizes are always the American size system. I think the on this one is actually a 7 and not a 4, so it may have shrunk quite a bit. What bothers me about this hat is the sloppy way the ribbon is done. I think someone may have dabbled with that, because that's not the way Borsalino would have done it.
Cool finds and definitely Borsalinos, so welcome to the brotherhood

 

[steur]

Black Borsalino Homburg, Extra Extra Superiore. Style is Gulacia or Gulatia? It came in box shown. Couldn't pass up buying it because they were selling the hat and box for what the empty box alone was worth.

It's another cool find, Mike. Certainly with the box to go along with it. The model is called "gulaela" and it's the most common of Borsalino's homburg models.

Borsalino, 2 1/2 inch brim. Color Sfinge, style is Gorasgu, I think it says. This hat is very similar to another Sfinge hat I posted a while ago, but I think the brim on this hat is 1/4 inch wider.

The second one is the big score this time. The Gorsagu model is very popular, because of its style and proportions and if you find one, go for it. This one is even more desirable because of the felted brim edge. A winner!

 

[MikeinRome]

It's another cool find, Mike. Certainly with the box to go along with it. The model is called "gulaela" and it's the most common of Borsalino's homburg models.


The second one is the big score this time. The Gorsagu model is very popular, because of its style and proportions and if you find one, go for it. The one is even more desirable because of the felted brim edge. A winner!

Thanks a lot for your input, Stefan.

 

[skylize]

What bothers me about this hat is the sloppy way the ribbon is done. I think someone may have dabbled with that, because that's not the way Borsalino would have done it.

Sloppily applied glue behind the unkempt bow. Definitely fussed with in a bad way.

 

[skylize]

I think the on this one is actually a 7 and not a 4, so it may have shrunk quite a bit.

Looks lke you nailed that one.

The price label shown above has only a hint of a red smudge in the bottom-left cell. The loose removable copy has a big red 7 there.