- Messages
- 17,549
- Location
- Maryland
Robert, Great find! The felt (color, finish, hand) looks fantastic. Also fantastic form.
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The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD
- Thread starter Dakota Ellison
- Start date
40Cal
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,689
- Location
- California
Thanks, Steve. One of those lucky "buy it now" purchases on EBay. The color in the sellers photos made it look like a light yellowy beige. I took a chance!
Would you have an estimate as to its age from the tip logo?
moontheloon
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 8,592
- Location
- NJ
Looks to be consistent with everything 50s I’ve experienced
The angled side seam on the liner is a tell
Not many Borsalinos made it over here pre 50s ... more times than not when someone thinks they have a 40s Borsalino it is actually 50s or later
Quite difficult to date these hats are but I’d put my money on 50s on this one without hesitation
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40Cal
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,689
- Location
- California
Thanks, Ant. I was hoping it was 1950's. Nice to know about the angled seam ... I never heard that before. Cool!
moontheloon
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 8,592
- Location
- NJ
Best thing about Borsalino hats is that unlike American made hats they stayed very high quality up until quite recently ... 80s maybe ? after the original house ... someone more versed in Borsalino can confirm dates ... decades after this was made
What you have there is a beautifully crafted hat of supreme quality
40Cal
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,689
- Location
- California
I've been happy with almost all the Borsalinos that I have collected. Amazingly thin felt compared to most of the american made hats that I have.... and the colors! Don't get me started on the colors! haha
moontheloon
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 8,592
- Location
- NJ
Agreed
Never owned a Borsalino I didn’t like
Love all that I still own ... and regret selling quite a few that passed through my hat room... one Feather Weight in particular .... DAMN
40Cal
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,689
- Location
- California
I try not to think about the hats I have sold. Too painful! I hate selling them but I'm running out of room. lol
moontheloon
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 8,592
- Location
- NJ
My studio is so cluttered with hat boxes that I $#!t you not , I sold a drum kit today to make more room
40Cal
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,689
- Location
- California
Haha! I laugh.... but I would have done the same. I got rid of a couch about a month ago to free up some new hat space!
- Messages
- 17,549
- Location
- Maryland
To me pre WWII Borsalino felt is a bit boring. This is based on what I have seen and I would love to be proved wrong. I know this might get some blood boiling but that's the way I see it. 
AbbaDatDeHat
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 8,875
Greetings All: Bill you sure got a diamond for a dollar there! That’s a very special old hat. The tear out paneled label with vertical Borsa, onion skin tip liner, un-reeded??with corrugated sweat all appear 50’s to me but sure other’s will nail it down. Looks light as a feather too! Never have seen the triple “V” brim treatment before. Outstanding!!! V for victory in this case. “Carla” is color, c.Elefante is ribbon color if different than hat, Faunosca is the model, which is a new one on me. Outstanding in every way Sir. Enjoy!!
Be well. Bowen
moontheloon
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 8,592
- Location
- NJ
I've never handled a pre war BorsalinoTo me pre WWII Borsalino felt is a bit boring. This is based on what I have seen and I would love to be proved wrong. I know this might get some blood boiling but that's the way I see it.
could you explain what you mean by boring ?
this interests me very much
- Messages
- 17,549
- Location
- Maryland
The finishes are too similar. For most people here that is fine but I like to see a wider range of finishes from pounced Smooth to hot wet brushed Velour.
Bill Hughes
My Mail is Forwarded Here
- Messages
- 3,169
- Location
- North Texas
I think it cleaned up beautifully. This is a very lightweight felt. I was not thinking I would keep the ribbon but it is growing on me. I'm really looking forward to giving this lid a try. This makes my third vintage Borsalino and I'm hooked.
moontheloon
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 8,592
- Location
- NJ
awesome !!!
- Messages
- 12,384
- Location
- Albany Oregon
Dig the brim stitching. Nice.
I think that pre WW2 , the variety of colors that were worn were not as varied as the selection that Borsalino showed after the war. There were more offerings of colors as time went by. Today the variety of colors that the company make is vast but the quality is not what it was.
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"Sigaro", Point 6, 68 grams, paper label date stamped 1980. This is super light weight Borsalino is a gift from Daniele. I very much appreciate him taking me to see his amazing Merano, Italy find.
Open Crown
Open Crown
- Messages
- 17,549
- Location
- Maryland
Bill & Caldwell were the importers for Borsalino in America. The following are transcripts of their testimony at Fur Felt Hats Tariff, Readjustment (U.S. Congress) hearings of 1929. The total imports for 1927 Men's Fur Felt Hats were 28,500 dozen which made up only about 1% of the United States Men's Fur Felt Hat Market so very tiny. Regardless the American Fur Felt Hat Industry wanted to increase tariffs. Italy had 18,000 dozen of the 28,000 dozen and most were from Borsalino (reason for Bill & Caldwell and others testimonies of the behalf of Borsalino).
Fur Felt Hats Tariff, Readjustment 1929 (U.S. Congress) (Scroll down to "Statement of J.G. Whitelaw, ....")
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=umn.31951d03546986e;view=1up;seq=856
You might want read the entire hearing from the beginning. It's pretty interesting with some funny exchanges. The hearing also includes Women's Fur Felt Hats (a larger number, 94,825 dozen) which were largely Velours from Austria and Czechoslovakia.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=umn.31951d03546986e;view=1up;seq=838
The testimony by J.G. Whitelaw representing Bill & Caldwell is interesting. He mentions the selling point for Borsalinos was their light weight but the tariffs were making them 2 to 4 dollars ($12.00) more than equal price point American hats ($8.00) so this making them too expensive and impacting sales. He said they were 1% of the Men's Fur Felt Hats so they were no threat to the American Men's Furt Felt Industry. The counter from the U.S. side was the imports were increasing and they wanted to increase the tariff. Seems ridiculous but I guess they saw that Italy and Europe in general were not importing U.S. made Fur Felt Hats and didn't like that.
In the other parts of the hearing the very small wages being paid to Italian workers is brought up. I guess the point was that Italian companies and Borsalino in particular were making a lot of money on their hats based on the low wages they were paying their employees. The counter argument from the Borsalino side was that there were other factors driving up their costs such as fur, components (sweatbands, liners) and shipping costs. I have no idea if Borsalino / the Italian side was being totally truthful.
Fur Felt Hats Tariff, Readjustment 1929 (U.S. Congress) (Scroll down to "Statement of J.G. Whitelaw, ....")
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=umn.31951d03546986e;view=1up;seq=856
You might want read the entire hearing from the beginning. It's pretty interesting with some funny exchanges. The hearing also includes Women's Fur Felt Hats (a larger number, 94,825 dozen) which were largely Velours from Austria and Czechoslovakia.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=umn.31951d03546986e;view=1up;seq=838
The testimony by J.G. Whitelaw representing Bill & Caldwell is interesting. He mentions the selling point for Borsalinos was their light weight but the tariffs were making them 2 to 4 dollars ($12.00) more than equal price point American hats ($8.00) so this making them too expensive and impacting sales. He said they were 1% of the Men's Fur Felt Hats so they were no threat to the American Men's Furt Felt Industry. The counter from the U.S. side was the imports were increasing and they wanted to increase the tariff. Seems ridiculous but I guess they saw that Italy and Europe in general were not importing U.S. made Fur Felt Hats and didn't like that.
In the other parts of the hearing the very small wages being paid to Italian workers is brought up. I guess the point was that Italian companies and Borsalino in particular were making a lot of money on their hats based on the low wages they were paying their employees. The counter argument from the Borsalino side was that there were other factors driving up their costs such as fur, components (sweatbands, liners) and shipping costs. I have no idea if Borsalino / the Italian side was being totally truthful.
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