The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[KarlCrow]

Thanks! It looks like a very nice hat. Is it a 5 1/2 Point?

Thanks! It looks like a very nice hat. Is it a 5 1/2 Point?

says it's a 'borsolino size 5 1/2' but also says it's 57cm, so I'm hoping it's a tight 5 1/2 as I'm I think about 57.25

 

[mayserwegener]

They can run about one size small. You might have to tweak it a little bit.

 

[Bob Roberts]

bought @ €75 incl. delivery.

sure i can always sell it on... Right.... RIGHT? P-)

so igot into fedora hats 10 days ago, and now have four here, one in the post and one being made! Help me

Nope

 

[Frunobulax]

so igot into fedora hats 10 days ago, and now have four here, one in the post and one being made! Help me

Sorry, the only help you'll get here is to get more hats.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[RJR]

Sorry, the only help you'll get here is to get more hats.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

Yep,there's no antidote known .

 

[steur]

does this look like a quality hat & how much do you think i might pay for it?

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Karl, I don't think you'll be disappointed with this hat. Menno and Muriel from Vintage Hatters know what they are talking about (although on this one their site is a bit unclear about the size). It's listed as a 57 but 5 1/2 is given as wel, which is not consistent; 57 should be 5 of course.

 

[KarlCrow]

Karl, I don't think you'll be disappointed with this hat. Menno and Muriel from Vintage Hatters know what they are talking about (although on this one their site is a bit unclear about the size). It's listed as a 57 but 5 1/2 is given as wel, which is not consistent; 57 should be 5 of course.

yeh, they have a black borsalino alessandria similarly listed and sized 57 / 5 1/2. I figured they must have measured them.

i was staring at it for two days thinking, no, why take the risk etc. I'm sure you all have been there. Then just plunged after decidinh without even emailing about the size descrepency in case someone else jumped on it in the meantime.

anyway, it's on its way. If the size is unsalvagebly wrong I'll sell it I'm sure.

also credit to them for reasonable shipping rates.

Thanks Steur, good to know you rate tge vendors, Karl.

 

[Bob Roberts]

yeh, they have a black borsalino alessandria similarly listed and sized 57 / 5 1/2. I figured they must have measured them.

i was staring at it for two days thinking, no, why take the risk etc. I'm sure you all have been there. Then just plunged after decidinh without even emailing about the size descrepency in case someone else jumped on it in the meantime.

anyway, it's on its way. If the size is unsalvagebly wrong I'll sell it I'm sure.

also credit to them for reasonable shipping rates.

Thanks Steur, good to know you rate tge vendors, Karl.

Did I miss pictures in this thread? The Alessandria model is my favorite.

 

[KarlCrow]

Did I miss pictures in this thread? The Alessandria model is my favorite.

it's on the dutch vintage hatters website, but it's a 57cm

 

[steur]

This was one of the first Borsalino hats I bought. The consensus here on the lounge seems to be that as soon as the lettering in gold appears on the bow the quality of Borsalino goes downhill. Well, I don't automatically agree with that and here's one example why. Borsalino "film" in brown, size 57, 6cm raw edge brim and 11cm crown at the pinch. I own over 20 borsalinos now and handled several more both vintage and new and this one still ranks up there with the very best of them. Very thin and moldable felt and soft to the touch. A superb hat, gold lettering on the bow or not. This model is still advertised at Bencraft and the one in grey has been on my list for a long time now. I do wonder though if it's still the same quality as this one (this one dates from 1990).

 

[KarlCrow]

This was one of the first Borsalino hats I bought. The consensus here on the lounge seems to be that as soon as the lettering in gold appears on the bow the quality of Borsalino goes downhill. Well, I don't automatically agree with that and here's one example why. Borsalino "film" in brown, size 57, 6cm raw edge brim and 11cm crown at the pinch. I own over 20 borsalinos now and handled several more both vintage and new and this one still ranks up there with the very best of them. Very thin and moldable felt and soft to the touch. A superb hat, gold lettering on the bow or not. This model is still advertised at Bencraft and the one in grey has been on my list for a long time now. I do wonder though if it's still the same quality as this one (this one dates from 1990).

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In a medium to Dark Grey, with a dark grey band w/o the gold branding, would probably be my 'THE hat', if such a thing as 'THE hat' exists.

 

[Redfokker]

This was one of the first Borsalino hats I bought. The consensus here on the lounge seems to be that as soon as the lettering in gold appears on the bow the quality of Borsalino goes downhill. Well, I don't automatically agree with that and here's one example why. Borsalino "film" in brown, size 57, 6cm raw edge brim and 11cm crown at the pinch. I own over 20 borsalinos now and handled several more both vintage and new and this one still ranks up there with the very best of them. Very thin and moldable felt and soft to the touch. A superb hat, gold lettering on the bow or not. This model is still advertised at Bencraft and the one in grey has been on my list for a long time now. I do wonder though if it's still the same quality as this one (this one dates from 1990).

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Still a classy looking hat, no matter what vintage. My new Borsalino from Daniele is of mid 1970s vintage, and is equally nice. I like the color of this one Stefan, a versatile brown, everyday hat.

 

[alanfgag]

This was one of the first Borsalino hats I bought. The consensus here on the lounge seems to be that as soon as the lettering in gold appears on the bow the quality of Borsalino goes downhill...

The loss of old world manufacturing details did not fall off a cliff after the move of the factory, rather they changed slowly. Your hat appears to retain a silk liner, which, by the time I purchased a modern Borsalino in the 2000s, had become synthetic satin. Other elements, sweatband, imprints, and eventually the felt hand also suffered as time went on. Modern hats - even custom hats made with much love - reflect this change in the availability of materials and trades and traditions. But certainly there were nice examples produced even as these changes took place.

 

[steur]

The loss of old world manufacturing details did not fall off a cliff after the move of the factory, rather they changed slowly. Your hat appears to retain a silk liner, which, by the time I purchased a modern Borsalino in the 2000s, became synthetic satin. Other elements, sweatband, imprints, and eventually the felt hand also suffered as time went on. Modern hats - even custom hats made with much love - reflect this change in the availability of materials and trades and traditions. But certainly there were nice examples produced even as these changes took place.

Alan (and others), thanks. That was the point I was trying to make: there is a certain tendency to oversimplify quality where no goldlettering means "good" and goldlettering means "not good", but as you rightly point out, it's never that simple.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Alan (and others), thanks. That was the point I was trying to make: there is a certain tendency to oversimplify quality where no goldlettering means "good" and goldlettering means "not good", but as you rightly point out, it's never that simple.

I have emphasized this consideration other times.
Too often it tends to consider Borsalino's production after mid 80's as low quality.
A few days ago I posted this hat that is magnificent in everything, unless it is a miserable marketing choice, the writing on the bow.

The felt and finishes are of the highest quality.
In our, Steve and me, January 2016 visit to Spinetta Marengo at the Borsalino factory, we were able to admire some of the "religious" hats ready for shipment of the excellent quality and a series of homburgs to end with a remarkable quality. Other hats present were normal.
It is necessary to say that there is a risk of losing a know-how in the Italian hats production if the situation of the remaining two hats factory will remain suspended at a thread.
It would lose the overall quality of the hats everywhere
Remember well this.

 

[steur]

To some people the visibility of the brand name is everything (more people than I care to think actually). I've sold quite a few ho-hum modern borsalinos, which are still good hats by the way, mostly on the basis that they are Borsalinos and that it was clearly visible on the bow. And it's understandable too: how many people, apart from lounge members and specialist hatstore staff, know the difference between a good hat and a lesser hat? And how can they know? It's not that there are hats everywhere to make comparison easy. So they tend to stick with a well known name and a high pricetag.

Back to the hats. Here's one where we don't need to ask for papers to prove its credentials. I traded this one with Daniele Tanto, our esteemed fellow member here, as part of European hat exchange program. He hasn't received my hats yet, but I have received his (and there are some goodies there). This is the first one: Borsalino homburg in Bronzo (so it still fits in with the metal theme too), size 5 (57), brim at 6cm and crown at 10cm at the pinch. There was some imaginative description by the original seller of the colour, but the label revealed it to be bronzo. What more can I say? It's everything a borsalino is supposed to be: high quality felt and beautiful finishing and I can't thank Daniele enough for having found this one for me. Mid fifties to mid sixties I believe. Did make me wonder though when the edged rectangular labels were first replaced with the ones with rounded corners. Anyone know when that was exactly?
Anyway: here it is.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

I traded this one with Daniele Tanto, our esteemed fellow member here, as part of European hat exchange program. He hasn't received my hats yet, but I have received his (and there are some goodies there).

Oh yes I received the hats Friday!
The exchange of postal parcels works very well .......my mind is a little bit slow
I thought I had written to you on their arrival, but I forgot, by the contentment, to tell you they came in
I beg your pardon!

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Borsalino without any indication of quality

Produced in the last years of life of the historic Borsalino factory in Alessandria

The lining is sewn, but as always I have some doubt about the production dates between the two management, the historic one and the new one that accompanied Borsalino's production for twenty years

The paper label is from that period

The heather hat felt has an indefinite color between the light brown and a bit of gray

It is referred to as the Borsalino "Magma" color type

while the ribbon has a color called "Talpa" and combines perfectly with the felt
The felt changing shades to any different light.

The proportions are: 6 cm. overwelted brim and the crown is 11 cm.

 

[steur]

Borsalino without any indication of quality

Produced in the last years of life of the historic Borsalino factory in Alessandria

The lining is sewn, but as always I have some doubt about the production dates between the two management, the historic one and the new one that accompanied Borsalino's production for twenty years

The paper label is from that period

The heather hat felt has an indefinite color between the light brown and a bit of gray

It is referred to as the Borsalino "Magma" color type

while the ribbon has a color called "Talpa" and combines perfectly with the felt
The felt changing shades to any different light.

The proportions are: 6 cm. overwelted brim and the crown is 11 cm.

Daniele, looks like a great hat. The model reminds me of my Augusta Gris Fer I posted in the metal theme sequence of hats recently. A longhair in heather: what's not to like?

 

[KarlCrow]

lovely