The B-3 appreciation society …

[Baron Kurtz]

Lovely jacket, H.J.

bk

 

[Edward]

Very nice looking B3, Edward. Wear it in good health.
BTW- your kittens look like younger versions of mine; 11 year olds Hazel and Blackberry.

Thanks.

HJohnson - great looking jacket, I'm impressed! Any photos of it in use?

On the subject of B3s in general, here's something I've been thinking about recently. The B3 came after the Irvin, and was indeed partially inspired by it as I understand it. If that is the case, then presumably there was a reason for any variations - be that because they were considered improvements (e.g. the horse panels on the arm offering protection to a common wear-point) or cheaper to produce (lack of arm zips?). Are there any known records of this design process that give an insight into the genesis of the B3 and the thinking behind it?

 

[H.Johnson]

Thanks.

HJohnson - great looking jacket, I'm impressed! Any photos of it in use?

On the subject of B3s in general, here's something I've been thinking about recently. The B3 came after the Irvin, and was indeed partially inspired by it as I understand it. If that is the case, then presumably there was a reason for any variations - be that because they were considered improvements (e.g. the horse panels on the arm offering protection to a common wear-point) or cheaper to produce (lack of arm zips?). Are there any known records of this design process that give an insight into the genesis of the B3 and the thinking behind it?

Edward,

I understand that this has been well discussed on this very forum some time ago.

There is some contention (which I have absolutely no intention of arousing here) about the links between US sheepskin flight jackets of the early 30s and the Irvinsuit. The possible link is not via the B-3, but its predecessor the B-2. The contentious issue is the involvement of L.L. Irvin himself in the design of both. In the archives of a North Western (US) University there are transcripts of interviews with LLI as an old man, in which he appears to involve himself in the development of the B-2, then going on to describe how he subsequently decided to set up Irvin Airchute in Europe. There are certainly features that have a superficial resemblance between the two jackets (i.e. B-2 and Irvin). It is harder to link the B-2 and B-3, other than to say that the whoever designed the B-3 had learned to make a cheaper jacket.

I think I can say, without fear of being attacked too savagely, that it is almost certain that L.L. Irvin had at least some part in the development of the Irvin jacket...

 

[Edward]

Edward,

I understand that this has been well discussed on this very forum some time ago.

There is some contention (which I have absolutely no intention of arousing here) about the links between US sheepskin flight jackets of the early 30s and the Irvinsuit. The possible link is not via the B-3, but its predecessor the B-2. The contentious issue is the involvement of L.L. Irvin himself in the design of both. In the archives of a North Western (US) University there are transcripts of interviews with LLI as an old man, in which he appears to involve himself in the development of the B-2, then going on to describe how he subsequently decided to set up Irvin Airchute in Europe. There are certainly features that have a superficial resemblance between the two jackets (i.e. B-2 and Irvin). It is harder to link the B-2 and B-3, other than to say that the whoever designed the B-3 had learned to make a cheaper jacket.

I think I can say, without fear of being attacked too savagely, that it is almost certain that L.L. Irvin had at least some part in the development of the Irvin jacket...

Thanks - I'll have a hunt through the archives for more on that.

Edit: Mods, whiel being very aware of how much work it is and that it may just not be practicable, would it be at all possible to maybe merge some of those older, relevant threads in here as this evolves towards being a one-stop-shop for B3 information?

 

[H.Johnson]

Thanks - I'll have a hunt through the archives for more on that.

Edit: Mods, whiel being very aware of how much work it is and that it may just not be practicable, would it be at all possible to maybe merge some of those older, relevant threads in here as this evolves towards being a one-stop-shop for B3 information?

Edward,

If I recall the content of LLI's memoir accurately, he doesn't actually refer to the B-1 or B-2 by name, but infers that he assisted in the development of flight clothing that was similar to the Irvinsuit - this would probably be the B-1/B-2 series rather than the B-3. He is possibly exaggerating the effect that the development of his parachute system had on the altitude at which people flew the late 20s. As I recall, he doesn't describe in any detail what his involvement was (if any) in the development of US flight clothing. I should point out that LLI was born a US citizen.

 

[PADDY]

Aeroleather Redskin B-3

 

[LadyDeWinter]

Lovely jacket Paddy and a nice colour. Did you photoshop your face?

 

[H.Johnson]

Paddy,

I'm currently working on a D-1 in a similar shearling, but I'm a bit short of what I need. Do you happen to know if Aero would supply me with some off-cuts?

HJ

 

[fishmeok]

I finished modding my B-3 last night. Changes include:
Removing and re-attaching the cuffs properly
Removing, shortening, and re-attaching the zippers authentically
Making the jacket body almost 4 inches shorter
Adding the square reinforcements at the bottom of the zippers
Adding the triangular reinforcments at the top of the zippers
Making the insignia tabs a more reasonable size (they were almost 4" by 4"!)
Dyeing the arm, pocket, and straps darker (just looks better)
Adding an AAF decal
Moving the pocket up and alongside the zipper

I am pleased with the results, though it was a LOT harder than I thought it would be. It's still more of a B-3 look than exact replica as the straps are way off, the tape is too dark, and I cheated on the body length by just cutting off the bottom and moving the tapes and pocket up instead of installing a panel of 1/4" fleece around the base. The insignia tabs are too far forward as well...

Not NEARLY as spectacular as HJ's B-3, but good enough for daily wear.
Cheers
Mark

Before:

After:

 

[Fletch]

...it was a LOT harder than I thought it would be.

These things always are. Great work!!! :eusa_clap

 

[SamMarlowPI]

here's mine:

...kinda...lol

 

[Baron Kurtz]

fishmeok, that's certainly a great improvement! I think the length is just about perfect now; looks to be right on or about the hip bones, no?

A little update. I've stripped out the remains of no less than three previous zipper tapes and am awaiting a deadstock Talon to arrive from japan. All the undamaged panels have had a dose of Pecard's and are responding perfectly. Oe of the nipple/chest snaps was almost completely torn away so i've unstitched it and will be patching the hole/worn area with shearling from the dead cuffs i removed and replacing the snap. A lot of work on the way, then i pass on to patching the collar holes. All to be done by hand, of course. no fun any other way …

bk

 

[MudInYerEye]

This photo deserves an encore.

 

[fishmeok]

f A lot of work on the way, then i pass on to patching the collar holes. All to be done by hand, of course. no fun any other way …

bk

See, I don't have the patience for that, not with this big industrial sewing machine I have sitting in the back bedroom. Shearling is pretty easy to punch through, but the extra bulk and elasticity made it very difficult for me to maneuver around the sewing machine without causing too much drag and messing up the stitch length. I'm going to sick to leather jackets.
Cheers
Mark

 

[fishmeok]

Paddy,

I'm currently working on a D-1 in a similar shearling, but I'm a bit short of what I need. Do you happen to know if Aero would supply me with some off-cuts?

HJ

Nice- I need to get a D-1 or B-6, just to round out my complete AAF flight gear wear...

What are you using for your pattern? BTW I know I've said this before, but as someone who has actually tried to sew this stuff my admiration for what you have done with that B-3 you made is off the charts-
Cheers
Mark

 

[fishmeok]

This is an Aero B-3 that belongs to a friend of mine. Size 46 I believe.

And an Eastman D-1, just for variety

 

[Edward]

Fishmoek.... Grand job on the B3. I agree with Pete - length looks spot on now. To my eye, it's also a much better fit on you - looks like a truer military fit rather than the 'modern casual' cut. Probably would look right to most folks outside the FL / VLJ ...

Is that D1 yours? How do you find it compares to the B3? I ask because I'm tempted by the B6 in the longer term myself, but I don't know that (along with the Irvin I have my eye on) I could justify another sheepskin.... I'm not a collector (I keep telling myself), so they all have to be justified by practical purpose....

This photo deserves an encore.

It reminds me of:

lol

For US Loungers, that's Wilf from The Bash Street Kids in The Beano.... see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beano and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bash_Street_Kids

 

[fishmeok]

I wish that Eastman was mine! Was just trying it on...

For a jacket that you can actually wear a B-6 or D-1 is perfect. The fleece is cut to 1/4 inch making them true 3-season jackets (as long as it stays below 50 F). the B-3 is great, but I'm not going to be able to wear it until the temp goes down below freezing or thereabouts. B-6 is my personal favorite.

My US Auth B-3 is marked a size 44, it's actually a 44 XXLong but it was very tight across the back until I wetted the back panel and tape down and stretched it a bit. If I was actually going to be wearing flight clothing under it (heated suit, uniform, etc.) I would probably wear a period size 46. but for normal wear with a sweater it's perfect. I know I'm going to have to replace the cheesy straps and hardware someday though, they are already bugging me.
Cheers
Mark

 

[Nighthawk]

OK all you jacket experts, here's a B-3 question that has been bugging me (this question applies to other shearling jackets as well): Does anyone know why B-3 jackets rarely have patches and artwork on them, aside from the AAF shoulder decal? I realize that since B-3's don't have a one-piece back, unlike A-2's, artwork wouldn't look as good on them. But why no squadron patches on the front of the jacket? Were there uniform regulations prohibiting such items on the B-3? Or was it just not practical to sew through all that shearling? I know, I know, I've seen a few repros with patches/artwork, but I honestly can't say I've seen one on an original.

NH

 

[H.Johnson]

I finished modding my B-3 last night. Changes include:
Removing and re-attaching the cuffs properly
Removing, shortening, and re-attaching the zippers authentically
Making the jacket body almost 4 inches shorter
Adding the square reinforcements at the bottom of the zippers
Adding the triangular reinforcments at the top of the zippers
Making the insignia tabs a more reasonable size (they were almost 4" by 4"!)
Dyeing the arm, pocket, and straps darker (just looks better)
Adding an AAF decal
Moving the pocket up and alongside the zipper

I am pleased with the results, though it was a LOT harder than I thought it would be. It's still more of a B-3 look than exact replica as the straps are way off, the tape is too dark, and I cheated on the body length by just cutting off the bottom and moving the tapes and pocket up instead of installing a panel of 1/4" fleece around the base. The insignia tabs are too far forward as well...

Not NEARLY as spectacular as HJ's B-3, but good enough for daily wear.
Cheers
Mark

Mark,

A great improvement, if I may so! Modifying clothing is sometimes harder than starting 'from scratch'...You have done well considering what you started with.

Here's a tip I picked up in case you need to fill unused stitch holes in sheepskin or leather (for instance when moving a strap). There is a rubbery substance called 'Shoo Goo' that is intended for repairing the soles of training shoes, etc. It can be applied to the stitch holes and will fill them almost imperceptibly even from close range. It comes in a restricted range of colours (black being the easiest to use) but you can add pigment (e.g. shoe dye) with some success.

I hope this helps.