The Age of Profanity

[Section10]

Young people in particular seem to be a lot more liberal with swearing in public that they used to be. I think it boils down to a simple lack of class. People dress like they don't care about themselves, they might as well talk like it, too. If you don't have class and a little self-awareness, all the rest of how you project yourself is simply a wasted sham. The old adage: garbage in--garbage out, applies very aptly to people as well.

 

[mysterygal]

Growing up with the excuse of , hey my parents talked that way, can only get you so far before you realize..there's something wrong with this. I grew up in a hick-abilly red neck town that the people there used a lot of profanity with their every day speach, but growing up as a kid, there was something about it that just seemed 'off'. And using the consitution or whatever laws there may be pertaining to free speach, what they were meant for has been stretched and pulled to what is now laughable and ridiculous...not saying they are not being used in good ways today, but human nature likes to test each and every boundary in society...face it, even grown-ups acts like little children a lot of the time. But it's grown into this anything goes mentaliy while it may give the illusion of freedom, we are actually only hurting ourselves

 

[jamespowers]

Funnily enough it was my parents who instilled in me respect for all of our wonderful language. Their basic point was that words are just words and use of certain words in their most effective place is valid. And that there is nothing inherently wrong with any particular word. The degree of indoctrination against certain fine anglo-saxon words is fascinating. To avoid particular words because using them is "wrong" (no good argument for this yet) is in itself limiting one's vocabulary.
And surely profanity is covered in the free speech argument?

bk

I can see that no matter what I say it just isn't going to matter. That is fine. Swear away but realize that you will end up turning people off by doing so just as the previously mentioned free speech racial slurs would. I am just looking out for your best interest as an image consultant.

Regards,

J

P.S. If you want to swear like that all the time then you are going to need to get a few dozen tatoos to go with it. The forehead is the place to start getting them. lol

 

[WEEGEE]

I agree with you J.P.

I have sworn...not doing it anymore. I don't think curse words are very

creative but rather blunt and bland.The F word is not an acronym for

Fornication Under Controlled Konditions...as in PopKorn.

I think vulger words do hold to much power in our society...i wish

that was not the case ( they are just words) but they do upset and cause

unnecessary pain. That i suppose is my point why promote and proliferate

the unnecessary.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Ah, yes. I was waiting for the obfuscation (see, i can use big words) to begin. If not, to quote Robin Cook, "downright sophistry". To link "swear" words to racism is stretching the point a little.

I'm on record, i think, as denying any right to use racial slurs to abuse people (various previous threads). But, that doesn't mean that the words cannot be used in, let's say, an academic setting - debating the use of such words, for example (again the words are not the problem, the use of them is). Also, i deny unlimited free speech. One does not have the right to abuse someone else - through speech or any other means. I just noted that some of the anti-swearing lobby were some of those defending the use of an anti-Japanese slur (and various recent openly homophobic posts). I wondered if they'd care to defend the apparent paradox in the two standpoints.

And, there's the rub. A so-called "swear" word is not - i repeat, not, the same as a racial/sexual epithet (another big word .. I'm on a roll, tonight!). The F-word, for example does not necessarily attack anyone. Whereas a racial/sexual epithet or stereotype can do nothing but attack a certain person or group.

An illustrative example: I find the use of the phrase "Okey-Dokey" to be incredibly offensive. I feel that anyone who uses this phrase should stop. Ridiculous, no? Yes! It doesn't attack anyone. How can anyone possibly be offended by it? Again, there's the rub!

bk

p.s. my parents don't talk "that way" (good God-fearing Calvinists, and all that jazz). They just don't have a problem with me using "swear" words. I'm already well on the way to a dozen tattoos. Thanks for the concern

p.p.s As i said earlier, reasoned arguments will sway me - as on any topic. Circularism, however, will always fail. The "you shouldn't do it, because you shouldn't!" argument will not sway me. Show me how the F-word hurts someone ... then i might change my ways.

 

[mysterygal]

So Baron, you don't think that the word f*** doesn't imply something sexual?
It seems to me you're contradicting yourself.

 

[Section10]

Public profanity is verbal vandalism. It hurts the user. When I see an empty building that has been thoughtlessly damaged, (even though I am not harmed in any way), it still tells me some things about those who were insensitive and careless enough to disregard the rest of society in the interest of their own self-expression. They degrade themselves and that is harmful.

 

[Quigley Brown]

Baron,

Please list all the profane words that you use. I'm sure you won't, but it probably amounts to a handful. The same ones that have been used over and over and over for a few centuries or so. Why do you want to sound so cliche? Most everyone swears, so why do you want to be just like them? Wouldn't you want to be original in your vocabulary? Invent some new ones and become famous.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

mysterygal. My apologies. A clarification:

" so-called "swear" word is not - i repeat, not, the same as a racial/sexual orientation epithet "

So the f-word, let's say, would not be attacking any particular sexual orientation. That was my point. I think my first post on theis topic covered the meaning of these words - generally referring to sexual matters, sexual organs or excreta.

Maybe i'll invent some neologisms eek: ) ... I'm in America after all.

So Quigley, do you want profane words, or swear words? I don't want the thread closed! The blasphemous words i use (profanity: characterised by disrespect or disregard for things that are sacred) would indeed only be a handful. Add in swear words and that's quite a few.

I don't pretend to be any better than my ancestors. I'm just interested in words and their uses.

bk

 

[Quigley Brown]

I'm just interested in words and their uses.

bk

So now you are telling me that your use of profanity is for some sort of personal language project? Are you working on something similar to the Kinsey Report or something? You really aren't using profane words for your own personal enjoyment, just saying them to get people's reactions and jotting those reactions down in your notebook.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

More clarification:

I take an amateur interest in language, and why certain words are taboo and others are not (you'll admit, i hope, that one can take a non-professional interest in a topic - in my case semi-professional since my only tangible output is the written word). Some are rather obvious because - as i've said before - they attack people or groups. Others (and this is where "swear" words and profanity come into the equation) are culturally taboo for various reasons. Now the question is: Why are they taboo? Is there a solid argument for why the F-word is taboo? Do we need to update our ideas of taboo words? Funnily enough i'm only trying to provoke thought on this subject. I am genuinely interested.

The vocabulary argument is something of a red herring - one who doesn't swear is in fact actively limiting their vocabulary.

Why would using a "swear" word get my post pulled? The argument i've seen on this thread goes something like this: You can't use swear words because they are swear words. I abhor such "logic". Use of a racial epithet would get my post pulled because it would be attacking a particular person or group, causing pain and suffering. Adults, i think, can generally agree that attacking people is not a good thing. Why would using a swear word that abstractly refers to the female genitalia, for example, get my thread pulled, but using the latin term for the same genitalia would not?

Some further clarification:

It's not like every second word that comes out of my mouth is a "swear" word. In fact i swear little outside the home. And there are some situations where swear words are not appropriate (someone mentioned talking to a priest: that's a good example - though i've known some priests that could hold their own in a swear-a-thon). But there are other situations where swearing is perfectly acceptably used as emphasis - heated discussion, for example. I mean, should someone go home and thrash themselves in atonement for swearing? I am simply arguing that a blanket ban on "swearing" is rather silly.

 

[MK]

.

Using profanity is bad manners. That is a pretty simple concept. Any eight year old can explain it to you. Profanity quickly distinguishes the brute from the gentleman.

I have regretted every single use of profanity I have used in moments of weakness. It is an indicator that I have become too emotionally involved in the conversation.

Cussing is easy. Thoughtful and wise words require effort.

I don't think profanity deserves advocating.

 

[silhouette53]

I think the problem lies in the fact that profanity eventually becomes almost sub-conscious - i.e. people who pepper their conversation with stock phrases like "know what I mean?" are really quite unaware of the number of times they'll use that in their conversation. Likewise, people can get to the stage where 'almost every other word' is F...... - and they don't even realise it. Of course, to anyone who rarely or never swears, it really stands out and yes it can be objectionable or offputting. An old schoolteacher of mine used to say that "punctuating ones sentences with expletives merely indicates that one is unable to express oneself adequately using the Queens English"

 

[mysterygal]

Swear words are just plain unnecessary. Baron, would you agree with that? Is there any real reason why a person needs to insert something into their conversation that refers to (in a dirty way) a body part, bodily excretions, or sexual acts? Even though you weren't meaning that word as you were saying them, the meaning of the word is still there and to the listener (s) around who may have not gotten totally desensitive, will come across as very vulgar, as which I happen to be one of those people.

 

[herringbonekid]

Now the question is: Why are they taboo? Is there a solid argument for why the F-word is taboo? Do we need to update our ideas of taboo words? Funnily enough i'm only trying to provoke thought on this subject. I am genuinely interested.

Baron, i think that the reason such words are taboo is because they are linked to the 'dirty' and 'shameful' act of procreation as defined as such by the roman catholic church (and other religions). essentially the words themselves have been subject to the same force of SUPPRESSION that the acts and bodily parts they describe have also been subjected to. and anything that is suppressed by church or state gains the power to shock the moral majority.


personally i don't like hearing swear words used in public, especially around children or old people. i think they should be used for serious emphasis only (especially useful in an emergency) and, in the appropriate circumstances, for comic effect.

 

[mysterygal]

Also, you say you study the language, as you may have observed there are so many ways of describing something or different words for communication that to throw in something vulgar, takes away something from it

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Or, chosen carefully, add to it?

bk

 

[Quigley Brown]

Or, chosen carefully, add to it?

bk

If you say so.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I don't say so. It was a question ... I'm not sure of the answer. Another friendly urge towards discussion.

bk

 

[BellyTank]

Ignoring the mindless and endless profanity of some folks, swearing is, for me at least, usually an exclamative utterance- and given this, does not require using one's deeper vocabulary to find a less 'harmful', or more 'meaningful' expression.

Profanity, or swearing, as an abrupt and urgent utterance does not require 'big' words. If I stub my toe or bang my knee, there are several short words, which perfectly express and satisfy my protest. The literal meaning of the words is irrelevant in most profane outburts anyway. The use of such profanity, for me, is in hurling 'abuse' at inanimate objects, or dumb animals which have caused me harm or damage, or occasionally Humans, with whom I am unaquainted and who cannot here that said expletives are pointed in their general direction. Otherwise I use profanity in an effort to express urgency, or as a flourish to either the positive or negative, in friendly, mutual discussion.

I think one can judge for one's self, where it is and is not appropriate to swear. We all have differing sensitivities and sensibilities though, don't we...

But if someone is 'conservative' in their social ways by choice, or otherwise socially repessed, then perhaps they will be offended- I don't consider myself to be in either of those stereotypes, so, observing that we live in cultures 'within' cultures, I will feel free to conduct myself according to my own judgement and 'they' can either be offended or close their ears. To comment on my conduct would definitely be bad manners.

If someone hears me swear and doesn't approve, then they can only judge me correctly as a person who swore, a person who uses a wider license on the language than they- nothing else. The episode was not directed at them, so they surely have not been harmed. Offended? well then, the onus would be on them. Their sensibilities are rightly theirs.

When I hear someone swear, it doesn't move, or shock me to any extent- unless, of course, it is the above-mentioned, mindless and endless, which is usually at an elevated volume and pitch, which may in itself be irritating, perhaps even more offensive than the actual malediction. People who raise their voices and yell constantly in public, where I am the audience, are far more offensive to me than people who swear judiciously in exclamation, vernacular, flourish, or embellishment.

Here, in Denmark (and most of Europe), there is little censoring in the media- the 'F word', although not Danish(but Universal)can be heard on almost any type of TV program but seldom by actual broadcasters. This is an aspect of the media that I appreciate greatly, as it is vastly insightful to mood, meaning and vernacular culture- from a recorded medium to a spectator.

I would make the observation, that in a social context, among mutual acquaintances and friends, swearing can more often than not, be humourous, rather than offensive.

I agree that swearing is part of the ancient richness of language and as such, should be preserved, upheld and used with prudence and passion.

Chances are though, you will never hear me swear.

B
F