The A-2 review

[Baggers]

It is a violation of the merchant agreement with credit card companies to charge extra for accepting credit cards.... plain and simple, it is not allowed!. You should report this incident to your credit card company.


Hacker

HPA has been doing that for years. I have to believe that someone would have reported them by now. Particularly some of the "scrappy" types who have bought from them.

Cheers!

 

[falcodriver]

HPA has been doing that for years. I have to believe that someone would have reported them by now. Particularly some of the "scrappy" types who have bought from them.

Cheers!

You'd be surprised!........In any case it is a clear violation, and I guarantee you that Visa/MC will contact them about it.....You can offer a discount for cash, the popular method used by gas stations to 'get around it', but you can NOT charge extra for a credit card purchase.


Hacker

 

[SGB]

You'd be surprised!........In any case it is a clear violation, and I guarantee you that Visa/MC will contact them about it.....You can offer a discount for cash, the popular method used by gas stations to 'get around it', but you can NOT charge extra for a credit card purchase.


Hacker

Doesn't HPA offer a discount for cash and checks? That's how they get around the law. They used to charge more for cc's but changed to cash discounts. All this was discussed on another forum a few years ago and then HPA changed their policy.

SGB

 

[MudInYerEye]

The gentleman I talked to had an accent. Who really knows what country my money will end up. QUOTE]

I've heard that Shaul Dover, the owner of US Authentic, hails from Israel.

 

[Fletch]

Lucky his last name isn't Ben-Dover, then, isn't he...
lol OW STOP KICKING ME!!1

 

[A2_Junkie]

Newbie chime - in

Hi all,

I'm new to the Fedora Lounge, but not to the obsession with the classic look and, of course, the quest for the ultimate A-2. I've had several A-2's over the years, including an original Cable Raincoat. Since you can't wear the antiques, I was always in seach of an EXACT reproduction.

After reading through this thread on ELC and HPA, I thought I'd share my experience acquiring my current A-2. I eventually received a RW 1401 through HPA last April (42R, russet), but not after a bit of frustration. The 1401 that they promised to set aside for me while I prepared a money order (to avoid the extra charge on the CC) was "sent out to another customer for evaluation". So, I was offered the option to wait to see if that customer sent it back, go with a Monarch (no collar stand) or wait 8 weeks for another 1401 to show up. I was eager to get my hands on a jacket (birthday present from wife), so I went with the RW 27752, which is similar to the 1401, but with seal brown leather. When the 27752 showed up, it was a larger cut and the leather was rather thick. Since I wasn't sold on it, I kept in touch with HPA and also had them send me the 1401 that I originally ordered after it was "returned from evaluation".

There I was, sitting pretty with two (2) high-quality A-2 reproductions in my house. The weather was getting warmer and I was paralized with indecision: the seal brown of the 27752 was tempting, but the 1401 was my first love. What to do? Relatives and friends were offering unsolicited advice - including comments like "$800? EACH? For a JACKET?" I spent much time in front of the mirror with each jacket.

I went with the RW 1401 and have been wearing it regularly ever since. It's breaking in very nicely. The naked, vegetable aniline dyed leather is exactly what you'd expect if you could put your antique A-2 in the "Way Back" machine to see what it looked like when it was issued. I've not discovered any quality issues and I've been impressed with the accuracy of the jacket - right down to the production label inside the right front pocket.

There's more to say, but I've already gone a bit long for a first post.

-peter

 

[Zemke Fan]

Welcome aboard, Peter...

We're glad to have you here. Sounds like you're very satisfied with your purchase. Post some photos when you have time. -- Col. Z.

 

[SPAD]

Shaul Dover does have an accent, if he was from Israel I would expect it, in fact if he was New York I would expect it. In my opinion he sure makes a nice jacket. I have a goatskin from US Authentic that is breaking in very nicely, and I don't know the difference of 10 stiches to an inch or 40. .Now having said that I cannot rain on someones search for authenticity, I think it is a neat hobby and has greatly contributed to our having some fine quality A-2 and G-1 jackets. SPAD

 

[BellyTank]

From my research Eastman’s is probably the most accurately "true to the original" repro jacket you can get, they even have NOS zippers, and if I could have afforded it would have bought one from them.

(Apologies to all Eastman owners-)

I would not agree with the quote above at all-
"True to original"- not really from my experience- they compare their own jacket hardware to original hardware... the zipper, the contract label, the snaps, the thread, stitching etc. Nice- but the jacket is cut wrongly and doesn't fit(per size, at least but generally badly) like an A-2, far too sloppy.
I may be generalising about the sloppy fit but it HAS become synonymous with the Eastman name, among many flight jacket enthusiasts.
Most of what I have seen for myself and heard comment on is that they are too sloppy- again, there are exceptions to this rule, which just makes life harder.

ZIPPERS-
Their zippers aren't NOS- I hope they still aren't claiming so.
They are different from WW2 Talon zippers(as are the Conmars they use), any vintage clothing, or flight jacket enthusiast could show you the difference. Those zippers are newly made copies.

Eastman and company make claims that are unfounded and people just lap it up.

Sorry but I felt the need to vent-

B
T

 

[scotrace]

They are claiming the use of deadstock zips, yes. This is the first I've heard of mine being perhaps a copy????

 

[BellyTank]

Well- the one on my last Eastman jacket wasn't a wartime Talon zipper.
I think some truth stretching is occurring, maybe

This is not however, something I'd like to go to court over.
I could be wrong, I have been once before- but I've never seen a wartime vintage example that was the same as the one on the repro jacket.

I believe(from memory) that the stamping of the zipper pull is actually different afrom an original and there is some script missing from the reverse of the slide on the repro jacket examples. I'm sure they're knock-offs.

Look here-

http://www.mash-japan.co.jp/fastener-repairparts/fastener-repairparts.html

look at the red links for Talon, Conmar, etc-
I think these are knock-offs too but excellent knock-offs.

Anything can be reproduced-

B
T

 

[scotrace]

I'll have to have a closer look. I've got an original handy to compare.

 

[A2_Junkie]

Looks like my zipper

I must say that BT posted (http://www.mash-japan.co.jp/cgi-bin/prd.cgi?itemno=95-01-4201) looks EXACTLY like the Talon zipper on my ELC jacket. Even the parts appear to have the same metal finish and the cloth looks identical.

I wouldn't be surpised to learn that the zipper was a repro. When I showed it to my brother (a pilot of vintage aircraft who works in an aircraft museum w/ many vintage A-2's), he questioned the originality of the zipper. He thinks that there used to be a spring under the puller. I think he's refering a zipper that was on his antique jacket when he purchased it - which may not have been original either.

If ELC is buying repro zippers, they might as well come clean. A reproduction isn't a bad thing.

About jacket fit: My theory is that you buy off the rack and go with what fits you the best - leaning towards a close fit. I figure that your average WWII AAC flyer was issued a jacket and it fit or it didn't. When you look at photos, it's not uncommon to see the shoulder seams drooping or the sleeves a bit too long or short. What you don't want is to have the thing blouse out, if you're going for a vintage look, of course.

-Peter

 

[SamReu]

Spokes Man

Yo, A-2 Junkie, hello from a former resident of Rittenhouse Square and Fairmount. One of the last things I did before leaving Philadelphia -- breakfast at the Melrose.
Like you, I have had several A-2's over the years (none original), and, these days, I take turns wearing an ELC house goat (seal) and a US Authentic horse (russet). The Eastman is superior, no surprise, but the cheaper US Authentic is a hard-wearing jacket.
I am eyeing the Aero -- I'm intrigued by the steerhides -- but haven't taken the plunge yet.
I'm also curious about the Highwayman jacket, but that's a whole 'nuther link...

 

[BellyTank]

I must say that BT posted (http://www.mash-japan.co.jp/cgi-bin/prd.cgi?itemno=95-01-4201) looks EXACTLY like the Talon zipper on my ELC jacket. Even the parts appear to have the same metal finish and the cloth looks identical.

I wouldn't be surpised to learn that the zipper was a repro. When I showed it to my brother (a pilot of vintage aircraft who works in an aircraft museum w/ many vintage A-2's), he questioned the originality of the zipper. He thinks that there used to be a spring under the puller. I think he's refering a zipper that was on his antique jacket when he purchased it - which may not have been original either.

If ELC is buying repro zippers, they might as well come clean. A reproduction isn't a bad thing.

About jacket fit: My theory is that you buy off the rack and go with what fits you the best - leaning towards a close fit. I figure that your average WWII AAC flyer was issued a jacket and it fit or it didn't. When you look at photos, it's not uncommon to see the shoulder seams drooping or the sleeves a bit too long or short. What you don't want is to have the thing blouse out, if you're going for a vintage look, of course.

-Peter

The zipper with a spring beneath the puller would be a CROWN, common on some specific contracts- the zipper teeth form chevrons rather than overlapping horizontals.

Well- those *m*a*s*h* zippers are good repros- they should look the same as an original- so the Eastman zipper is either an original, or a repro... hmmm...

Of course the physique of a 2007 male who is interested in and can afford to buy a repro flight jacket is much different from a typical WW2 era flyer-

But it's not just a matter of "get a smaller size"- it's the proportions.

B
T

 

[scotrace]

And of course, welcome to The Fedora Lounge, Peter!

Has anyone had Aero make up something in that cool gnarly bison hide they offer?

 

[MudInYerEye]

The Talon zips MASH sells are not reproductions. The zips that Eastman says are NOS Talons (with the unmarked sunburst stopper box) are identical to the zips on many wartime civilian and military jackets I have currently own or have sold.

 

[BellyTank]

Are you absolutely sure you're sure..?

Am I wrong again, again..?

I have vintage ones too but there are a couple of small differences between them and the MASH and Eastman ones I also have.
You need to look closely though. Can you see..?

Aren't Eastmans' Talon zippers from the same source as the ones on BR and RMC jackets..? They are repros, TALONs, Hookless and CONMARs- repros.

Hmmm..?

B
T

 

[MudInYerEye]

Are you absolutely sure you're sure..?

Am I wrong again, again..?

I have vintage ones too but there are a couple of small differences between them and the MASH and Eastman ones I also have.
You need to look closely though. Can you see..?

Aren't Eastmans' Talon zippers from the same source as the ones on BR and RMC jackets..? They are repros, TALONs, Hookless and CONMARs- repros.

Hmmm..?

B
T

The Talon and Hookless zips that McCoys and Rickson's use are definitely repros and do appear to come from the same source. You can always tell they are repros by the slider part of the puller which has notched "shoulders" as opposed to the smooth curved shoulders of the original Talon. Why McCoy's/BR haven't corrected this yet is a mystery.
The Eastman supposedly-NOS Talons have the curved shoulders of the original Talon sliders. I can't find any differences between the Eastman zip on my 1401P from originals I own, but I have been wrong before. I have noticed that some of the sliders on various Eastman jackets will have "Talon USA" stamped on the back while others will read "Talon Made in USA", but again I have examples of original jackets with both these variations. What are the differences you spot?

 

[A2_Junkie]

Zippers

(Hey SamReu! I haven't been to the Melrose since 1991...on the way home from the bars...)

Here is a picture of the Talon zip that was on the ELC RW 27752 that I briefly had (a nice jacket, BTW). It's exactly like the one on my ELC RW 1401 and exactly like the MASH one's BT mentioned:

-Peter