The A-2 review

[scotrace]

Is this still around?

I have a G&B A -2 but i wanted a cheaper one to leave in the car and use it to go to the movies they keep it about 68. In the Shows Plus its a nice knock around coat for $50.00 I was surprised at the Quality for so little money.Now my lady wants one!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=135&item=2241252772

Just found this thread. What jacket is this? Is it still somewhere on ebay?
Thanks....

 

[ShanghaiJack]

A-2

I own originals, and I own repros. The best most authentic repro A-2s I own are made by Eastman. If you want details buy an Eastman. Chas. DiSipio has had a major role in production details with Gary Eastman, and Chas. is a leather puritain. He has researched, researched, and researched the Original Wartime contractors, their construction methods, dye process', etc. Even down to the correct "shade" and count the thread should be. And he's influenced Eastman to incorporate these details over the years.
A few other pics of Eastman jackets can be found here:

http://www.eaglesquadrons.com/coppermine/index.php?cat=16

And if you want an extremely accurate, and oh so comfortable Eastman Jacket, I'd suggest their Gordon and Ferguson M-422A, it is beyond outstanding!

Tails Up!
SJ

 

[BellyTank]

Some like 'Eastman', others prefer 'The Real McCoys'/'The Few'.

My choice is for these New Zealand made(for the Japanese market) ones- the fitting is more correct than Eastman and the choice of original contract manufacturer styles and detailing better and wider.They will even make you a custom A-2. If you order direct from NZ, the prices are comparable to Eastman, although shipping and customs is a factor for US buyers.
Eastman have built up a big reputation but it's not quite deserved in my opinion.

B
T

 

[MikeyB17]

I certainly notice a hell of a lot of people with nice things to say about RMNZ's jackets lately-perhaps I'll have to check them out next time I'm in the market for a new jacket. Wish they'd do something with their website though. Not sure I'd buy another Eastman A-2, they get the little details right but I'm not crazy about their hides or their cut. Some of their other jackets are superb though.

 

[BellyTank]

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey... you're just giving me an excuse to go off...
It took you a little while Mikey but you're slowly coming around.
You think you've had it good all these years living down the road from Eastman don't you?
It seems that when people can get past the safety of buying from the US or the UK, and finally buy a RMC A-2, they see sense- aaaahhh...I see...
It generally takes people a few or more Eastmans or Aeros, or a few grand, whichever comes first- before they finally get to the RMC, the far off exotic import and exchange rate problem A-2- and then you hear people like 'Allen', you know Allen, waxing lyrical about them. There are of course, the dyed in the wool, blinkered Eastmanphiles- but if they really can't see what's better about an RMC jacket, well then there's just no explaining.
And what you said about Eastman and the 'small details' and leather-
well what about the 'big details', like what it looks like from further away, in the mirror even- the fit for crying out loud!
And Eastman's fitting is definitely biased toward the 40 yrs+ beer pilot. If you have a look at Senicko's pic's and see the RMCs and Eastmans(Eastmen?)layed out flat- just look at the width of the chest, sometimes the length and the Eastmans' saggy armholes.
Disproportionate. I think if an Eastman jacket fits you 'right', then you must be a weird, un-WW2-Pilot shape(not you, 'one')

And it's usually pot-luck what you end up with, with a lot of repros but the way RMCNZ are operating now, your jacket is a custom job, after you've spent many a sad night gazing over the collection of leather swatches and fondling them...You pretty much get what you'd imagined, and hoped for.

I've had Eastmans before and I think I've had bad luck with them too, but I was never impressed with the fit or the leather, or the collars for that matter.
Send in the Clown collars... My 'Star' fit like a wet cardigan...

I think Aero have the potential to be better than Eastman, just through sheer production capability and adaptability but until they sort their knitwear out, I'm not their biggest fan. Just that and the zips and they'd be good to go.
Fit has never been an issue with Aero, it's almost spot-on.
Why does nobody else ever mention the Aero knitwear? Does nobody notice that it's horribly wrong???
Phew... enough damage done now- thanks for the opportunity to share Mikey! Hope I didn't offend your Southern sensibilities...
Might be doing the Penzance run this summer, fingers and legs crossed.

And no, it's not all because I'm FROM there either...

B
T

 

[MikeyB17]

Ho! Bored again are we, Ashworth old fellow? Now come along, you don't need any encouragement from me to go off on one! You have me all wrong you know-back in the old days before I knew any better, I admit I thought ELC were the be-all and end-all, especially when they're just up the road, but when I got into these forum thingies I began to change my tune, especially when confronted with the attitude of some of their supporters-but let's not get into that. I've been a pretty comitted Aero-phile for a few years now, but I have lost a bit of patience with them lately-not only the recent 'Real Deal' pantomime but their attitude in general-not saying I've fallen completely out of love with them, especially when they sell jackets cheap on the sale page which is where half of my collection has come from, but I agree with you that they have potential but don't appear to be bothered to do any more than they're doing-knits being a case in point. I don't feel as strongly about 'em as you obviously do-I actually quite like the ones on my 15142-but I'd prefer it if they were proper double weave jobs. Like I said, I went off Eastman big time for a while, but I've started buying from them again now (Rangoon shirt, AN-6505-1 kit bag, and if their crusher'd've fit I'd have had that too), but their A-2's don't do it for me any more. Which leads me to RMC, who seem to be the only ones I've not tried (apart from the likes of Lost Worlds who I wouldn't deal with on principle, even if Stu would sell to me, which I doubt, being one of those limp-wristed sandal-wearing nancy boy basement bombardiers). So I'm willing to give it a go next time I've got a few bob spare to spend on a new jacket, which should be about 2010 unless the missus comes up on the bingo. Yes, Allen is rather fond of his RMNZ's, did you get that impression? Good bloke, though. Apologies to other forumites for this little exchange, which most of you will be reading with a puzzled frown-jacket forum talk. Sorry!

 

[BellyTank]

...or maybe it's just you and me reading this one...
Don't get me wrong Jummy(Scots accent), I thought Eastman was the Cats PJs too, in the beginning... that's what they want you to believe- their marketing works- gives one the impression that there is none better... and if you don't keep looking...there probably isn't. But most here probably don't take the jacket thing as seriously as us- I think we have the 'Indy' type enthusiasm and desire for detail but obviously directed toward a different commodity. I have other Eastman products too- got the Rangoon and tie... Their NEW IMPROVED self-made B-10 is really, really nice- excellent fit. I've just given up on their A-2s - which probably discounts many of their other jackets if fit is representative. I don't mean to be tough on Aero at all either and I hope I'm not- their range and progressiveness is excellent- but that 'RD' VLJ2/C20th debacle you mentioned had a very poor and disappointing Company-man defence...
I think I started it in a way (stating my sharp observations as usual about strong colour garment 'shading' and epaulette length) but nobody finished it satisfactorily-it just ended in someone getting huffy and turning their back on the discussion- ...raising handbag a la Vic and Bob.
I like Aero and always point people tward them for 'vintage' leather and denim.

And old KC was a right Crank but maybe without his whip cracking it's not so good- at Dumfries or Yahoo...

But back to ELC, their image plants and maintains a seed of utmost and accurate authenticity and quality and in people minds- undeservedly. I think there's also an English 'snob-value' aspect to it, especially with non-UK buyers, it seems there's a very positive association and assumption.
And RMCNZ, with virtually zero profile, operating like a factory/wholesaler are tops in my book- perfect pixies toiling away making the loveliest A-2s as we sleep- very Christmassy.
Yep, hold your water, save your pennies, hold out for a McCoy.

Hey, picked up these yesterday for cheap-

...brilliant, MINT pair of wartime RAF sunglasses with the case (goggles, flying, anti-glare), they were badly categorised/described on eBay-
These type are wider than the US style aviators, which is nice, if you have a w-i-d-e-screen face, like me.

Oh, and I finally picked up something decent here in a junk shop- a '30s leather 'sporty' button thru jacket with masses of sartorial detail and pleats and belts, in a size that fits and for change out of twenty squid--
Whoopee....

Maybe see you in Korn-waa' sometime around Jul/Aug...?

Anyhar- see yir-

B g
T ts

 

[BellyTank]

Ashworth?

Wasn't he the Captain in "...it aint arf ot Mum"?

Oh Blimey!

Panka
Wallah

 

[MikeyB17]

You're right 'Lovely Boy', I think he was. Fine pair of shoulders, show 'em off, show 'em off......wish I could find decent stuff in charity shops, of which there are hundreds round here, but very little in the way of good stuff in 'em-my best find was a genuine Crombie overcoat, mint, for £25, but that was a long time ago. Yes, I think you're right about Aero and ELC-Aero could do a better job but can't be bothered-lovely jackets but it seems near enough is good enough and they get the hump about 'nitpicking' if you question their accuracy-I honestly think they'd be happier not doing military repros and sticking to utilities. The real deal debacle was daft really-to my mind if a company representative is a member of a public forum, it's no good getting shirty if people have a problem with your product-can't please all the people all the time-and if he's going to have a strop every time somebody says they have a problem with their Aero, he's probably best staying away. ELC have excellent marketing people, obviously, and there's a lot of their stuff I like-but not their A-2's. It's interesting, not too long ago nobody paid much attention to RMC, now suddenly they're the jacket everybody wants. No smoke without fire, I suppose, so they must be doing something right. If you're coming down this way in the Summer, be sure to give me a shout-preferably with plenty of warning so I can do something about my shifts-and we can get together and continue this discussion without boring the rest of the guys on this forum!

 

[BellyTank]

Goodo Old Bean!
Spot you at Mousehole!
Tophole!

B
T

 

[MikeyB17]

I'll see 'ee down Mowzle, me 'ansome.

 

[MikeyB17]

Oh dear, I see my scintillating wit has been wasted. 'Tis just what we says down 'ere, me lover. Dun 'ee go gettin' yer knickers in a twist.

MB17

 

[PADDY]

Sorry to break you boys up but...

Was it throwing out time at T20C or VLJII..? You two ruffians!!
Anyway, not stepping into the best A2 company debacle here, just wanted to say, BT...nice specs me ol son!! I'd be quite tempted to get an old vintage RAF pair sometime (what are the lenses made from?).
Think I'm going to have to have a rumage in your Danish home sometime!! sounds like Alladins Cave (you leave Alladin's nocturnals out of this sir!!).

 

[BellyTank]

VLJ has closed down Paddy-
-there's a new, non-Yahoo one now.

The RAF sunglasses have glass lenses of course.
i haven't seen too many pairs in this good a condition.
Alladins cave? not really, stuff comes and goes...

B
L
T
:hamburger

 

[MikeyB17]

Ruffian? Moi?

This coming from a bloke who looks like one of the cast of 'Hell Drivers' with his Irvin on! (And no, I don't mean Patrick McGoohan-or Stanley Baker, for that matter)

 

[PADDY]

Hey, picked up these yesterday for cheap-

...brilliant, MINT pair of wartime RAF sunglasses with the case (goggles, flying, anti-glare), they were badly categorised/described on eBay-
These type are wider than the US style aviators, which is nice,

They do look very cool BT, as you can see in this pic from the original wartime RAF book, "Fighter Pilot."



Those sunglasses coupled with the RAF tunic (top button undone, of course for the BoB crowd) under a hot English sun, looks sooooo cool!

 

[scotrace]

Catalog

I ordered the Golden Book (catalog) from History Preservation Associates. Thanks for the tip.

 

[BellyTank]

Yep, Eastman make a nice book.

B
T

 

[jake431]

I don't know if you are still chewing it over about what A-2 to get, but I thought, for posterity if nothing else, I'd post my experiences with Real McCoy's NZ (RMNZ), Aero and Eastman (HPA, to be precise)

1) I own an M-422a from RMNZ, and did own one of their Dubow A-2's. Paddy, the salesperson, well, she's the best. We discussed fit via email and when it came time for my A-2, she sent a sample jacket to try on. She didn't charge me shipping here, just shipping back. I had a New Old Stock Crown zipper put in my A-2 - I shipped it to her in NZ, she deducted my shipping costs from the total. She also gave me about 5 or 6 sample choices to choose from (all horsehide). Finanical hardship forced me to sell the A-2, but I still have my M-422a. I've met a bunch of the various jacket nerd folk in person (Grant, Allen, Paul, Jerome, Dom). Paul alone has at least on A-2 from every wartime contractor. and they all agree my M-422a is possibly the best reproduction of one they've ever seen. I made the choice to go with them after speaking with Mark at Acme Depot who recommended I speak with John Chapman about Navy jackets and he did not hesitate - the RMNZ has the look and detal better. All in all, RMNZ is my favorite. All the flight jackets in Band of Brothers (A-2's, B-3, B-6) were made by them.

2) I've ordered an A-2 and a Motorcycle jacket from Aero. The A-2 was through Mark Moye, and he's a very dedicated salesperson, doing everything he can to make sure you are happy. I ordered an anniversary 1942 model A-2, smooth seal with rust knits, with a NOS talon. It was very well made, but I did not keep the jacket - too big on me. Most likely my next A-2 will be their 1940 A-2, and I know it will make me very happy. Their inaccurate knits have drawn concern, and rightly so - mostly for their Stuart-esque insistance that theirs are better and that the original knits were poor, and that their inaccurate ones are really an improvement. But other than their knits, their fit it probably the most wartime accurate out of the box of any of the "big 3".

3) I've bought a ELC Star A-2 from HPA. It was a stock size 44, too large for me, but the construction was nice, and it was very pretty. The downside of ELC is that custom work takes MONTHS, instead of the 4 weeks it takes Aero to make your jacket from scratch, or the 2 weeks it takes RMNZ. But Charles at HPA is nice, and their customer service is quite good. If you take a stock size from ELC, their A-2's are a good choice. I think you can get a good idea of the ELC fit from Acme Depot - Mark has a fairly typical modern physique as compared to wartime aircrew, so you can get a sense of how ELC has modified their jackets cut to better fit the modern body right out of the box. At this point in my life, the ELC cut is not terribly flattering on me, but there might come a time when I need to more strongly consider them again.

I haven't had any jackets from any of the other repro makers out there, so I will limit my editorial to the above three. If you've already bought your A-2, I hope you enjoy it, and if you haven't I hope I've helped. Either way, you 've helped me avoid work for a few 15 minutes, so thanks to you!

-Jake

 

[scotrace]

Reviving Old Thread

Just t'say that I'm in week 15 of an "eight week"
wait for my Eastman A2.

And there's no shortage of chaps here to say "I told ye so."