The 80s, myth and reality?

[NattyLud]

I'm glad I'm not the only one to find those terms epically creepy, especially given their current popularity with the newly resurgent "Blut und Boden" crowd.

The 80s saw the collapse of my state's industrial base as well, and for pretty much the same reasons: either buyout/merger fever, or attempts to go to sunnier climates where workers didn't believe in Solidarity. At the start of the 80s, our industrial base was built around papermaking, fish processing, poultry processing, shoe manufacturing, and textiles, with metal and wood fabrication of components for the construction trades in there as well. By the end of the 80s, poultry was completely gone, shoes were almost completely gone, textiles were on their last legs, and fabrication was severely undermined by overseas competition. Fish processing was heading into its final collapse by the turn of the 90s, and papermaking was right behind it.

The real question we were asking as the eighties flashdanced on was "what's going to happen to all these people who've worked in these plants and mills all their lives?" The answer we were given was "they can all work in these new call centers we're going to build in exchange for tax-increment financing!" Well, that didn't work out either, especially when the executives of the companies who built the call centers bled said companies dry. Ooops.

The industries that really flourished here in the 80s were the cocaine and heroin trades, but even then you had to buck a lot of "foreign competition."

Growing up on the leeward side of the S.D. Warren papermill, I often fantasized about the end of paper production...
And while I haven't lived there in several decades, it seems the future economic base of that area will be in selling "quaint" to nouveau rusticators and the like. With Portland exploding, all those coastal and riverside towns that were depressed as they were emptied of their industrial value seem to be Camdens in waiting.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I lived eight years in the actual Camden, and it's like being tied down with a hand-plaited artisnal seaweed rope and having half a gallon of warm Karo syrup poured down your throat. A more insincere place does not exist on the planet.

 

[vitanola]

Oh!

You two were referring to Camden MAINE.

When I hear the word Camden, I think of New Jersey and of Talking Machine plates.

That said, our Miss Maine certainly has a picturesque way with words. The image that she paints, disturbing though it be, shall never leave me, I fear.

 

[2jakes]

Oh!

You two were referring to Camden MAINE.

When I hear the word Camden, I think of New Jersey and of Talking Machine plates.

That's funny!

 

[MikeKardec]

The "Me Decade" seems to keep getting updated, with ME in a larger and larger font as we approach the current moment!

 

[vitanola]

I lived eight years in the actual Camden, and it's like being tied down with a hand-plaited artisnal seaweed rope and having half a gallon of warm Karo syrup poured down your throat. A more insincere place does not exist on the planet.

Thank heaven you are on the side of the angels, Miss Maine. Had James E. Mitchell known of this we would have perhaps faced some unique horrors. "Now bring in the syrup jug, Hawkins..." the terror would be unspeakable.

 

[HadleyH1]

The 80s were intense


Very intense


thst's all I will say here

 

[2jakes]

Trenchfriend, my friend, reading the diversity of replies so far, I hope you have an idea that it was good and not so good times based on what was brought to their table by the good folks on this forum.

 

[vitanola]

As it is generally agreed that Wilde was right, I shall quote two men of great wit re: the 80s:

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way--in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

Or, more succinctly: "Reality is the original Rorschach."

 

[Atticus Finch]

I unloaded most of my Civil War reenacting gear two years ago, and a few reproduction wool blankets were part of the deal I made with a fine fellow from North Carolina who I hope will put their authenticity to good use. When you consider what Uncle Sam paid for their prototypes under contract at the time of that war, versus what I paid for their reproduction incarnations, it might cause a few of those soldiers who actually had to sleep under the originals to spin in their graves. A good repro blanket went for about what a private was paid over five months.

Being authentic had a price tag, and looking back on those fun filled years in the Hobby, a good argument could be made that true authenticity was lacking from any individual who didn't have to face .57 caliber lead or canister shot in live fire. I finally got out of the hobby because I realized that the most unauthentic facet of reenacting that war can never be parleyed away at any price: age. For the most part, the armies who fought that war- North and South- were made up of boys in their late teens or early twenties. When you're older than either Lee or Grant were at war's end and you still want to carry a musket and "relive history," perhaps it's time to consider the reality that you're not honoring anyone's memory by pretending that you're less than half your real age. There are better ways to honor the fallen, I realized. The fight to preserve the historic battlefields continues, and I'm convinced that is a better venue of engagement for old pharts like myself.

One Saturday afternoon, some years ago, a friend and I stumbled upon an encampment of Civil War re-enactors that included a group portraying the 10th North Carolina State Troops. An “officer” there was explaining to visitors how much effort and expense goes into proper re-enacting. How each article of a soldier’s gear must be examined for authenticity and approved by a board of experts, and how the gear can be very costly, and on and on. At one point, he even turned to my friend and told her that she’d have to be in period dress were she to visit me in the encampment. You’d have to know my friend to appreciate the implications of what this “officer” was suggesting...but suffice it to say...her in a hoop skirt was damn difficult for me to imagine.

At some point, I mentioned to the guy that my great-great grandfather had served as a corporal in the actual 10th NC Troops. At first he seemed skeptical, but his “Sergeant” had the original regimental roster on a disk...which he checked. Sure enough, there was my great-great grandfather’s name, just as I had said. You would have thought I had suddenly become General Lee, reincarnate. The “officer” kept going on and on about how important it is to preserve history, especially family history, and how great it would be for me to take my great, great grandfather’s place in the new 10th North Carolina State Troops.

And I kept wondering...just how many authentic 250 pound, over fed, forty-five year old corporals were actually waddling around in the original 10th NC State Troops?

AF

 

[Kennyz]

Hi Trenchfriend, The 80's had some really great music, and fun music videos...I still enjoy them both!

Ken

 

[scottyrocks]

The '80s was the dawn of the age of music videos, and I think the one that defined and pulled into focus what a music video could be, at that time, was this one in late 1985. Still one of my favorites:

 

[Trenchfriend]

Hi Trenchfriend, The 80's had some really great music, and fun music videos...I still enjoy them both!

Ken

I know, Germany LOVES Cock Robin!!

 

[Trenchfriend]

Aah, the hair-crimping thing! I remember my childhood in the early and mid 90s!! And East-Germany had much "accumulated demand" after 1990.

When you would ask me, what was the big business on girls and young woman then, I thing beeing a dealer of hair-crimpers must have been THE BIG DEAL! Equally, who do you visited, all the girls and young women had these crimpers laying around, so I think, at least one billion of them must have been sold here, especially, when you remember that all the girls had the hair-straigthener at the same time, too. And then, the Spice-Girls came and the next generation of girls start to "consume".

 

[Edward]

I am still ambivalent about music videos. In the age of television, it was perhaps inevitable that it would become necessary as a marketing tool, though while there have been maybe one or two I've thought were genuinely interesting over the years, but for the most part I found them superfluous. For a start, when I listen to music I don't want to do it sitting watching television. Also, all too often it takes something as ephemeral as a song and forces a single interpretation on it. And there's very rarely any genuine creativity in it. Even Michael Jackson, long acknowledged as one of those artists who really 'got' the format rapidly descended into pastiche of himself (though I suppose that was suited to the increasingly played out and date disco h churned out to inexplicable praise).

FWIW, I always get irritated when people repeat the myth that Queen invented the music video. Alice Cooper had done something for Elected before that as I recall (released as a single in 1972), and Hendrix was experimenting with promotional video for singles when he recorded Purple Haze.

Is there a point to MTV any longer? I know they rarely play much music any more, but then why would they be needed for that in the internet era?

One Saturday afternoon, some years ago, a friend and I stumbled upon an encampment of Civil War re-enactors that included a group portraying the 10th North Carolina State Troops. An “officer” there was explaining to visitors how much effort and expense goes into proper re-enacting. How each article of a soldier’s gear must be examined for authenticity and approved by a board of experts, and how the gear can be very costly, and on and on. At one point, he even turned to my friend and told her that she’d have to be in period dress were she to visit me in the encampment. You’d have to know my friend to appreciate the implications of what this “officer” was suggesting...but suffice it to say...her in a hoop skirt was damn difficult for me to imagine.

If your friend was a person of colour, we can but be grateful that's all he meant. I totally get your point on accuracy. I see it here in the UK too with the WW2 reenactors. Overweight SAS commandos in their middle fifties, alongside Spitfire pilots who, aside from being twice the age of those kids, are probably too big to be able to fit into the cockpit of one....

 

[HanauMan]

MTV was actually very good when it first started and the videos were very imaginative at the time. The early 1980s was a interesting time for videos as that medium, as we know it now, developed. If you were a teenager in the early 1980s, as was I, you always looked forwards to 'your' groups' videos to see your what your musical 'heroes' were up to and to try and copy their style.

Not sure, nor care, who made the 'first' music video but there have been promo films since the 1940s of singers and groups which rocketed by the 1960s. I enjoy the early - mid 60s 'videos' of the likes of France Gall and other European singers.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Musical short subjects featuring popular bands and singers go back to the very beginning of talking pictures -- among the earliest DeForest Phonofilms were many mini-musicals, as was true of the earliest Vitaphone and Movietone shorts. These were usually pretty straightforward musical performances done in front of a curtain or on a simple set, so they weren't so much what we'd think of as a "video" as they were merely records of a performance. But many of the early talking cartoons had characteristics of the modern video -- unusual settings, imaginative stagings, plots tied to the performance of a current popular song. Most notably, the Fleischer "Screen Songs -- With the Famous Bouncing Ball" even featured live-action footage of the original artist performing the song illustrated in the animated portion.

The 1940s saw the popularity of "Soundies," short 16mm films featuring popular songs of the day manufactured for display on a vending machine called a "Panoram." You'd pay your money and the film displayed on a rear-projection screen on the front of the machine. Some "Soundies" were simple Vitaphone-style records of a performance, but others were clever stagings of the number, featuring dancers, props, unusual settings, and what-have-you. Quite a few personalities of the time made Soundies -- the biggest of big names didn't, you wouldn't find Crosby or Frankieeeeeeeeeee on a Panoram, but many middle-level musical stars did, seeing them as yet another way to get themselves before the public. The line of descent from Soundies to videos is pretty clear.

The first time I saw MTV was in a laundromat in Santa Barbara in 1983, where it played continuously on what passed at the time as a "giant" television screen suspended from the ceiling -- with the sound completely down. Seen silent, it was like viewing a mysterious alien transmission from deep space.

 

[3fingers]

There are quite a few "videos" that pop up on YouTube. Some are like what Lizzie mentioned above or are movie clips.
Here's one from the Andrews Sisters.

 

[scottyrocks]

Although filmed music with visuals has been around that long, I think the term 'music video' became a thing when the piece of music with visuals was made to specifically stand on its own and broadcast in a specifically formatted channel (MTV). Prior to that I think the term 'music video' pretty much didn't exist.

Many, if not most, music videos since the advent of MTV were actually shot on film, anyway.

Yesterday, A Hard Day's Night was on TCM. Any of the songs, whether they were in the studio, or on a TV set, or doing goofy antics during the song, could stand on its own as a 'music video' today. Then, they weren't labeled as music videos.

 

[Fading Fast]

MTV was actually very good when it first started and the videos were very imaginative at the time. The early 1980s was a interesting time for videos as that medium, as we know it now, developed. If you were a teenager in the early 1980s, as was I, you always looked forwards to 'your' groups' videos to see your what your musical 'heroes' were up to and to try and copy their style.

Not sure, nor care, who made the 'first' music video but there have been promo films since the 1940s of singers and groups which rocketed by the 1960s. I enjoy the early - mid 60s 'videos' of the likes of France Gall and other European singers.

Musical short subjects featuring popular bands and singers go back to the very beginning of talking pictures -- among the earliest DeForest Phonofilms were many mini-musicals, as was true of the earliest Vitaphone and Movietone shorts. These were usually pretty straightforward musical performances done in front of a curtain or on a simple set, so they weren't so much what we'd think of as a "video" as they were merely records of a performance. But many of the early talking cartoons had characteristics of the modern video -- unusual settings, imaginative stagings, plots tied to the performance of a current popular song. Most notably, the Fleischer "Screen Songs -- With the Famous Bouncing Ball" even featured live-action footage of the original artist performing the song illustrated in the animated portion.

The 1940s saw the popularity of "Soundies," short 16mm films featuring popular songs of the day manufactured for display on a vending machine called a "Panoram." You'd pay your money and the film displayed on a rear-projection screen on the front of the machine. Some "Soundies" were simple Vitaphone-style records of a performance, but others were clever stagings of the number, featuring dancers, props, unusual settings, and what-have-you. Quite a few personalities of the time made Soundies -- the biggest of big names didn't, you wouldn't find Crosby or Frankieeeeeeeeeee on a Panoram, but many middle-level musical stars did, seeing them as yet another way to get themselves before the public. The line of descent from Soundies to videos is pretty clear.

The first time I saw MTV was in a laundromat in Santa Barbara in 1983, where it played continuously on what passed at the time as a "giant" television screen suspended from the ceiling -- with the sound completely down. Seen silent, it was like viewing a mysterious alien transmission from deep space.

There are quite a few "videos" that pop up on YouTube. Some are like what Lizzie mentioned above or are movie clips.
Here's one from the Andrews Sisters.

Plus, many movies from the '30s on have basically inserted music videos into their stories. One that stands out for me is "Sun Valley Serenade," which has several Glen Miller Band videos in the movie. Some of the Elvis movies were so videos-strung-together that MTV, in its early days, took them straight out of the movies and played them as stand alone videos (several from "Viva Las Vega" and the video "Baby I Don't Care" have held up pretty well - and were better than many of the of-the-moment videos that were on MTV at the time).

Heck, had their audience been receptive, most of Fred Astaire's and many Bing Crosby movies could have been cut up into wonderful videos - but that was not going to sell to MTV's demographic in the early '80s.

MTV overall was, IMHO, a moment. There was no internet, only TV, radio, records, etc. MTV felt "new" and "fresh" as - and this was more fun for me than the story videos - you got to see the bands you knew performing their songs as, before, maybe the only image you had of the band was from their album covers. Today, this might sound trivial. But today, every band has videos and images on line - everywhere. Back then, you might like "The Pretenders" but had little idea of what they looked like and probably never saw them perform (if you didn't catch them on one of the TV shows that had rock and pop bands on).

Growing up, I had heard about how great Bruce Springsteen and the E-Street Band was live, but the first time I saw them perform was on MTV - that, to me, was the difference of MTV. The fancy story videos seemed cheesy even back then, but seeing the bands perform was special.

Also, Lizzie, "Frankieeeeeeeeeee." Nice.