Terror attack in Oslo, Norway

[David Conwill]

I kind of want to unsubscribe to this thread, as seeing it in my subscriptions every day makes me reluctant to spend time on the Fedora Lounge. That being said, before I go I want to put in my two cents on the "insanity is an easy way out" concept.

I can't speak for Norway, but in a lot of U.S. jurisdictions insanity is a life sentance. If one can be rendered fit to stand trial (through drugs or merely the passage of time), one stands trial to answer for his or her crimes. If one remains too incompetent to stand trial, one is confined to a mental institution (which I don't believe to be a picnic - someone correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm not aware of many places where the so-called "Twinkie defense" (temporary insanity) goes very far.

-Dave

 

[RichardH]

I kind of want to unsubscribe to this thread, as seeing it in my subscriptions every day makes me reluctant to spend time on the Fedora Lounge. That being said, before I go I want to put in my two cents on the "insanity is an easy way out" concept.

I can't speak for Norway, but in a lot of U.S. jurisdictions insanity is a life sentance. If one can be rendered fit to stand trial (through drugs or merely the passage of time), one stands trial to answer for his or her crimes. If one remains too incompetent to stand trial, one is confined to a mental institution (which I don't believe to be a picnic - someone correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm not aware of many places where the so-called "Twinkie defense" (temporary insanity) goes very far.

-Dave

If he's deemed insane, he will be locked up in a mental institution for the rest of his life. If he doesn't, he will still be in prison for the rest of his life, so either way, he's not going back to society again.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The question is, what is Norway's own legal (as opposed to clinical) definition of insanity? We need to take it into account if we're going to continue with this conversation.

 

[RichardH]

I say an eye for an eye, myself.

The whole "eye for an eye" thing is stupid. Killing him won't bring those people back. Hating him will not bring them back.
A life sentence is the best form of punishment he can get if you ask me.. Killing him is the easy thing to do.

Watched a program earlier where a survivor appeared, it's really tough to hear first-hand accounts of that massacre.. And the amazing thing was
that she didn't break down in tears at all. (I don't think I've seen a victim reduced to tears at all so far) I have no idea where they gather that strength.
I look forward to the day when the police are done with their investigation and they lock 'im up. This is the only guy that's able to make me physically ill just by hearing his name.

 

[avedwards]

The whole "eye for an eye" thing is stupid. Killing him won't bring those people back. Hating him will not bring them back.
A life sentence is the best form of punishment he can get if you ask me.. Killing him is the easy thing to do.

I agree. As I said earlier in this thread, imprisonment should not be underestimated as a punishment. Being deprived of your freedom is one of the most soul destroying things you can be put through in my opinion.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Being deprived of access to other prisoners, visitors, journalists, a phone, newspapers, magazines, television, the Internet, paper, pen, and a typewriter ... that would be the most appropriate punishment for this attention-craving man.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

The whole "eye for an eye" thing is stupid. Killing him won't bring those people back. Hating him will not bring them back.
A life sentence is the best form of punishment he can get if you ask me.. Killing him is the easy thing to do.

There will always be those who will be either a menace to society or, once imprisoned, a burden to society because such dangerous persons could never be allowed to live free among society. I'd rather have neither, hence my support for the death penalty. It sickens me to think that such persons will be cared for the rest of their lives at taxpayer expense. I can't think of a more cynical cruelty to be inflicted upon the families of the victims. Because the tax dollars (or euros in the case of Norway) needed to keep these unrehabilitatable murderers incarcerated includes those paid by the survivors of the victims. So, to me, this has nothing to do with hate and everything to do with compassion for the families of the victims.

Though I'm not averse to implementing what I call an "Adopt a Killer" scheme where those who are strongly opposed to the death penalty can voluntarily contribute to the cost of incarcerating a murderer.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I'd rather have neither, hence my support for the death penalty. It sickens me to think that such persons will be cared for the rest of their lives at taxpayer expense.

Some people would rather have a portion of their taxes go to incarcerating murderers ... rather than kill murderers already in custody, in order to save tax money.

 

[avedwards]

There will always be those who will be either a menace to society or, once imprisoned, a burden to society because such dangerous persons could never be allowed to live free among society. I'd rather have neither, hence my support for the death penalty. It sickens me to think that such persons will be cared for the rest of their lives at taxpayer expense. I can't think of a more cynical cruelty to be inflicted upon the families of the victims. Because the tax dollars (or euros in the case of Norway) needed to keep these unrehabilitatable murderers incarcerated includes those paid by the survivors of the victims. So, to me, this has nothing to do with hate and everything to do with compassion for the families of the victims.

Though I'm not averse to what I call an "Adopt a Killer" scheme where those who are strongly opposed to the death penalty can voluntarily contribute to the cost of incarcerating a murderer.

Norway isn't a member of the European Union, so they don't use euros... Also, to my knowledge Norway is the only Western European country to currently have a government surplus rather than a debt, so the financial cost is hardly an issue.

I'm personally against the death penalty because I do not think it is for the legal system to decide who has the right to live, but that's just my opinion. Legally Norway could introduce the death penalty as they're not a member of the EU so they aren't bound by the European Court of Human Rights, however I hope they don't go that route.

The "adopt a killer" scheme is an interesting idea but I disagree with the idea of a person's life or death being in the hands of those who are charitable enough to care about such people.

 

[avedwards]

Being deprived of access to other prisoners, visitors, journalists, a phone, newspapers, magazines, television, the Internet, paper, pen, and a typewriter ... that would be the most appropriate punishment for this attention-craving man.

I completely agree with you. After having has six hours of that I cannot bear to think what a lifetime of that would be like, hence I think it is the worst possible punishment for him.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Norway isn't a member of the European Union, so they don't use euros...

I stand corrected.

 

[scotrace]

Let's please stay off politics.

 

[lolly_loisides]

Let's focus on the victims, rather than the loathsome Breivik
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Article/201107116037474

 

[TCMfan25]

Let's please stay off politics.

Sorry Scotrace and FL'ers, I get carried away sometimes when dealing with tragedy.

 

[Tomasso]

Being deprived of access to other prisoners, visitors, journalists, a phone, newspapers, magazines, television, the Internet, paper, pen, and a typewriter ... that would be the most appropriate punishment for this attention-craving man

This sounds like a good idea. Total and complete isolation.

 

[Drappa]

Let's focus on the victims, rather than the loathsome Breivik
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Article/201107116037474

I can't believe all those children are actually gone. Seeing the pictures of their faces is somehow more shocking than all the other footage previously.

 

[MikeBravo]

Death penalty? This says we believe you are a bad person for taking a life, therefore we are going to take your life. Huh?

The "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" thing? It was actually a plea for justice rather than revenge.

It says if someone takes your eye, you should do no more than that to them. Not kill their whole family and take their livestock as seemed to happen a lot in Biblical days

PS sorry if mentioning the death penalty is politics, it seemed relevent

 

[scooter]

I think one thing we should take away from this whole tragedy, is that while there were certainly despicable acts committed that day, there were far more heroes than there were villains. My heartfelt thanks and eternal respect goes to all those boatmen who raced back and forth, sometimes under fire, to rescue as many of those kids as they could.

 

[Gregg Axley]

:eusa_clap

 

[Hereward]

Yes. Hurrah for the boatmen: heroes all.