Terms Which Have Disappeared

[Fading Fast]

Yep. Shepherds would not have been in the fields with their flocks in December. Most theories hold that Jesus was probably born some time in the early fall. But the idea of a Nativitiy feast coinciding with the ancient festivals of the "Rebirth of the Sun" was obviously too good for the dominies of the early church to resist. Hard to break old habits.

One of my favorite lines about the date of Christmas is that the only thing we know for sure about Jesus' birth is that it did not happen on December 25th. I find that to be an unimportant fact in the sweep and meaning of Christianity, but it is a funny line.

 

[ChiTownScion]

Yep. Shepherds would not have been in the fields with their flocks in December. Most theories hold that Jesus was probably born some time in the early fall. But the idea of a Nativitiy feast coinciding with the ancient festivals of the "Rebirth of the Sun" was obviously too good for the dominies of the early church to resist. Hard to break old habits.

Ecclesiastical Boys From Marketing, they. Usurping many of the more popular trappings of the waning pagan culture and incorporating them as enticements to their agenda of advancing their increasingly popular religion. Not just as to Christmas, but Easter as well.

Doubtful that there was any vast conspiracy which took place, but I can envision local church pooh-bas sanctioning church festivals and the notion snowballing in other regions through word of mouth. Not really all that difficult to see, because people rarely question the origins of what they see as a relatively benign festive practice while embracing it. In my own life I've seen self ascribed "Bible only" churches incorporate the custom of erecting of nativity scenes, a tradition established, as near as anyone can tell, by a Roman Catholic saint: Francis of Assisi. As these so often are the same folks who view the Roman pontiff as the incarnation of the Antichrist, the irony is pretty rich.

 

[LizzieMaine]

You won't find any observances encouraged or established anywhere in the New Testament, with the exception of Communion, which was simply a "remember me by doing this" kind of thing in the NT, not any kind of a pomp-a-doodle ceremony. Paul wrote a bit about whether it was proper for Christians to observe the Jewish festivals, and was basically "Whatever -- you who observe observe in the name of God, and you who abstain abstan in the name of God." I think that's a pretty refreshing point of view compared to many of his modern followers.

One year I had a traditional British Christmas dinner one night, and the very next night I dug into a Chanukah table. On the third night I had Bromo Seltzer.

 

[tonyb]

December of 2017, when the Jewish seasonal employee of a store owned by a Muslim feels pressured by the cranks and hacks among us to say "merry Christmas" to atheist customers.

It is indeed The Most Holy of Retail Seasons (TM).

 

[HadleyH1]

Well, of course.

Even so, the early Church rather co-opted the existing pagan ( Roman, Greek, and other) Solstice celebrations. After all, informed scholarship from the Third Century to the present day has considered the December 25th natal date to be a mere pious fiction.

Let's face it, Christmas has lost any religious meaning for a lot of people and now is largely an occasion to enjoy themselves with their families or others.It's a festive tradition we should not lose for misguided ideological reasons.

There is no point becoming heavily intellectual about this subject, let's just enjoy it if we feel like it without any heavy over analyzing.

Life is grim enough so lets not completely take all the fun out of it just because some people have an intellectual aversion to Christmas.

 

[tonyb]

I don't know anyone who has "an intellectual aversion to Christmas." A visceral one, maybe. And I can kinda understand that. It gets to be like a dinner of marshmallows (seconds, anyone?) followed by cotton candy for dessert.

Me, I dig the tarted up commercial districts. And it's exciting for kids. Some of them, anyway.

 

[Zombie_61]

Let's face it, Christmas has lost any religious meaning for a lot of people and now is largely an occasion to enjoy themselves with their families or others...

This is true for my wife and I, and most of the people we celebrate Christmas with. Most of us were raised with some form of Christian beliefs (Catholic, Lutheran, etc.), but have all drifted away from being regular "practitioners" for various reasons. We value Christmas (and Thanksgiving, for that matter) as an opportunity to spend time with people we care about and share a meal; nothing more.

 

[rocketeer]

Amen (is that allowed tee-hee)
Also, there is much complaining and hand-wringing about the commercialization of Christmas and "how it starts earlier and earlier each year." There was a mention of how crazy it was that Christmas items and advertising started in October. As Lizzie said, there is truly....

As to how early should we start our preparations, I do think shops try to bully people into spending as selling things is their job, but do display Christmas cards in August as our Tesco store once did was bad enough. On a trip to Niagara on the Lake we came across an all year Christmas shop and in Germany there is a whole chain of Käthe Wohlfahrt Christmas shops open all year.
MERRY CHRISTMAS(Yes I'm shouting, but thinking.....is it to early )

 

[Fading Fast]

As to how early should we start our preparations, I do think shops try to bully people into spending as selling things is their job, but do display Christmas cards in August as our Tesco store once did was bad enough. On a trip to Niagara on the Lake we came across an all year Christmas shop and in Germany there is a whole chain of Käthe Wohlfahrt Christmas shops open all year.
MERRY CHRISTMAS(Yes I'm shouting, but thinking.....is it to early )

We've run into a few all-year Christmas shops over the years (there was, maybe still is, one in Portland Maine). It's odd to walk through a fully decked-out Christmas store in May, but it must makes economic sense, I guess, or it wouldn't be there.

We give my girlfriend's parents ornaments as stocking stuffers each year and, as time goes by - since we try get ones that are relevant to their lives and that are creative - it gets harder to find ones that work. Hence, yup, we were some of the idiots looking for ornaments in a Christmas store in May (thinking they might have "different" ones up here that would work for her parents).

Life is stranger than fiction and some of the odd things that happen in one's life are stranger still. If you had ever told the in-my-20s me, that I'd be shopping in a Christmas store, on vacation, in May for ornaments, I'd have laughed in your face. But there I was doing so in my 40s.

 

[scottyrocks]

I don't celebrate Christmas - not my religion, but we do spend time with people who do celebrate, and enjoy the warmth, kindness, and general good will of the season while wondering why people can't be that way all year.

 

[Bugguy]

If you come from Chicago, you know the meaning of "to get downtown? Just go that way (East) till your hat floats". Although pretty soon you won't use that till Spring. As my dad said: "gotta run, my eye teeth are floating".

 

[Fading Fast]

And another teeth-related one:

Sets your teeth on edge
​

Great expression, rarely hear it anymore

 

[LizzieMaine]

"Like vinegar to the teeth..."
-- Proverbs 10:26

 

[scottyrocks]

If you come from Chicago, you know the meaning of "to get downtown? Just go that way (East) till your hat floats". Although pretty soon you won't use that till Spring. As my dad said: "gotta run, my eye teeth are floating".

My Dad used to use that last one. Of course, me being the logical sort that I am, pointed out that they would not float, but drown due to them being anchored firmly in place. He just kind of looked at me.

 

[ChrisB]

And as I always admonish:

View attachment 96155

Obliquity of the ecliptic is the reason for the season.

 

[ChiTownScion]

Obliquity of the ecliptic is the reason for the season.

 

[vitanola]

And another teeth-related one:

Sets your teeth on edge
​

Great expression, rarely hear it anymore

Hmmph!

I use that expression all of the time

There is SO MUCH country music on the radio, you see...

 

[BlueTrain]

Speaking of music, remember what "long-hair music" used to mean?

 

[LizzieMaine]

 

[Harp]

In my own life I've seen self ascribed "Bible only" churches incorporate the custom of erecting of nativity scenes, a tradition established, as near as anyone can tell, by a Roman Catholic saint: Francis of Assisi..

The Franciscans at St Peter's 110 W Madison offer an impressive Christmas Eve choir recital prelude to midnight Mass.
I always try to visit St Peter's Christmas Eve.
Ever attend the Catholic Lawyers Guild Red Mass at Holy Name Cathedral?