Terms Which Have Disappeared

[Seb Lucas]

"Beatnik" was created by a newspaper columnist Herb Caen. "Nogoodnik" may have had a similar origin. I think both were inspired by "Sputnik" a word that came out of Russia in 1957 and became very influential. So, more Russian than Yiddish.

Definitely Russian we used it here too.

 

[vitanola]

"Nogoodnic" is one I heard now and then growing up, but, pretty much, only from the older generation even then. I haven't heard it in decades.

And I'm sure we've posted this one before, but "frock" for a women's dress isn't one you really hear anymore either.

"beatnik" may or may not have been inspired by the Russian "Sputnik", but most neologisms ending in "nik", "nic" or "nick" have a much older pedegree, for they were Yiddishisms created by Jewish immigrants from the Pale in Russia. "Nogoodnik" is one of these words, which can be traced at least back to the Gay Nineties. Another example is "Allrightnik" which refers to a self-satisfied, smug fellow, generally a financial success, who has adopted superficial elements of American culture, but has lost his soul. Again, this usage may be traced back at least to the first decade of the last century, or "Fafofnik"; a runny nosed, adenoidal child, "Nudnik"; a boring or awkward person, Kibbutznik; a member of a kibbutz. All of these words were in common use BEFORE 1920.

Note that "Nik" is a suffix commonly used in all Slavic languages which roughly corresponds to our "er". It is used in Ukranian, Rusyn, Polish, Serbo-Croat, and quite a number of other languages.

 

[Fading Fast]

"beatnik" may or may not have been inspired by the Russian "Sputnik", but most neologisms ending in "nik", "nic" or "nick" have a much older pedegree, for they were Yiddishisms created by Jewish immigrants from the Pale in Russia. "Nogoodnik" is one of these words, which can be traced at least back to the Gay Nineties. Another example is "Allrightnik" which refers to a self-satisfied, smug fellow, generally a financial success, who has adopted superficial elements of American culture, but has lost his soul. Again, this usage may be traced back at least to the first decade of the last century, or "Fafofnik"; a runny nosed, adenoidal child, "Nudnik"; a boring or awkward person, Kibbutznik; a member of a kibbutz.

Holy cow - that's a lot of awesome information. I love the crazy origins of all this. Other than (obviously) beatnik, I hadn't heard of any of the other "niks" you identified.

I know you know this, Sputnik was '57 and the term "beat generation" pre-dates that, but are you saying that adding a "nik" onto "beat" might have been inspired by Sputnik? If so, how stupid cool is that?

As a funny connect to how Jewish words have worked their way into the common vernacular, especially in NYC, yesterday, we had a service call for our living room air-conditioner and the black Jamaican man (he offered up at some point that he was Jamaican but had lived in NYC for decades) who worked on it (and seemed to be the only one out of several since we've had this clunker who understood the real problem) noticed a problem with our condenser and said "oy vey," which, as many of you know, is a Jewish expression of, I guess, exasperation or frustration. That, IMHO, is real NYC organic (not top-down forced by an elite) multiculturalism at its best.

It was very funny to see this very worked out, tall, dark-skinned man spit out an expression commonly associated with older and frailer Jewish men and women - you gotta love it.

 

[Stanley Doble]

Newspaper columnist Herb Caen invented the word beatnik in 1958. The term 'beat generation' was current at the time but the word beatnik was new. He may have known about words like nudnik and nogoodnik but I doubt he would have thought of them if sputnik was not on his mind.

Later.... how the term beatnik came about - http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/HOW-HERB-CAEN-NAMED-A-GENERATION-3018725.php

 

[vitanola]

Newspaper columnist Herb Caen invented the word beatnik in 1958. The term 'beat generation' was current at the time but the word beatnik was new. He may have known about words like nudnik and nogoodnik but I doubt he would have thought of them if sputnik was not on his mind.

Later.... how the term beatnik came about - http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/HOW-HERB-CAEN-NAMED-A-GENERATION-3018725.php

Herb Caen's father, Lucien Caen, was a non-observant Jew, a classic "Allrightnik". Lucien and Gussie Caen were active in a Runyonesque amusement world, (pool halls and race tracks) which in their day retained a great deal of distinctly Yinglish argot. "Beatnik" literally means "one of the beat" or "Beat-er".

 

[skydog757]

I haven't heard "Get on the stick" in forever. I always understood it to mean paying attention, getting to one's task: "If he'd have been on the stick, none of this would have happened."

 

[Bruce Wayne]

When is the last time you heard that something was 6 ways from Sunday.

 

[BlueTrain]

It's a line in a certain movie I watch over and over again. It's the same movie in which one of the characters says, "Oh, to be 70 again." I use that line all the time now.

 

[Benzadmiral]

I'm almost positive the purpose of a red light camera is to produce revenue and some are timed so as to increase the revenue.

We have some of those cameras around here. Most have signage, though sometimes that signage is hidden by the oh-so-lovely foliage that also blocks your view of drivers coming out of a cross street.

My technique for dealing with the things is twofold: (1) when I see a camera light ahead that is green and has been so for a while, I pull over to the curb, so I won't obstruct traffic, and wait until it goes red. Then I drive up to it, ready to go through when it changes to green again; or

(2) avoid the things entirely by driving another way. Not easy to do in a city with the finest of Third World roads, when you care about your car.

 

[Zombie_61]

We have some of those cameras around here. Most have signage, though sometimes that signage is hidden by the oh-so-lovely foliage that also blocks your view of drivers coming out of a cross street...

We still have them here in my hometown and we occasionally see the flash bulbs go off when driving at night, but no one really pays attention to them because word leaked out a few years ago that the city stopped paying the maintenance contracts on them because the extra "revenue" wasn't covering the costs of the contracts and the city was losing money. So the cameras are still there, and some of them still work, but no one is replacing the film. And, yes, "film" is the word that was used. I would have thought they would be digital, but our city is still behind the times in many ways.

 

[BlueTrain]

The talk about red light cameras brings to mind the image of a motorcycle policeman hiding behind a billboard or bushes, ready to leap out and run down the speeders and scofflaws. Or in other words, a speed trap.

 

[vitanola]

The talk about red light cameras brings to mind the image of a motorcycle policeman hiding behind a billboard or bushes, ready to leap out and run down the speeders and scofflaws. Or in other words, a speed trap.

It brings to mind this old New Yorker cartoon by Garrett Price:

 

[wallypop]

Definitely Russian we used it here too.

Definitely Russian we used it here too.

 

[wallypop]

anyone ever use the term "chew the rag?"

 

[vitanola]

Of course a Russian will have intimate knowledge of his language, but perhaps less of the cultural context of the Polyglot America from the Turn-of-the-century.

Russianisms often first entered the American argot on the tongues of Ashkenazniks, Jewish immigrants from the Pale of Settlement, and from Russian Poland and from what are now the Baltic States.

The suffix "Nik" is common to the Slavic languages. Czech has hundreds of such words, for example "křivopřisežnik". Serbo-Croat, too has many such words, for instance "peščanik", Sloveniran, Polish and Rusyn (Rusnák or Lemko) all have such words in profusion. Remember that the suffix Nik derives from the Old Slavonic "niku", as in, say "supotiniku" or "one who travels".

 

[vitanola]

anyone ever use the term "chew the rag?"

Heck, when I was a Young Squirt my second QSO (amateur radio contact) qualified me for the ARRL's Rag Chewers Club, an award presented to any amateur who could verify a contact lasting longer than thirty minutes. I got mine, my first award, on my second QSO with a very patient old timer (licensed before the Great War), W0HP in Kansas City. He listened to my lousy fist on a rather chirpy crystal controlled 6L6 transmitter and returned by sending at a perfect, measured seven words per minute. It was my first real thrill in Ham radio.


The Rag Chewers certificates which were awarded in those days looked like this:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

anyone ever use the term "chew the rag?"

I use the phrase chew the fat. I also use the term jawing.

 

[St. Louis]

Chin-wag.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Bumpin ya gums.

 

[Zombie_61]

Beatin' yer gums.