Terms Which Have Disappeared

[BlueTrain]

And my daughter and son-in-law attended a funeral at Arlington last Tuesday; my wife's grandparents are buried there as well as the best man at our wedding. I think Arlington has an even stronger meaning for those who live around here in Northern Virginia.

Referring to all those comedians again, if I may, as a boy in the 1950s, I only saw and listened to them in the movies and on television as entertainers. I never particularly identified Bob Hope, for instance, with either the USO or Bing Crosby. None of them, in my childish ignorance, were anything more than entertainers of the moment, no different from the Three Stooges. None were worshipped, though I enjoyed some more than others. Because we only received a single television station where we lived, we missed out on anything that was on CBS, including Red Skelton and someone no one has mentioned so far, Jackie Gleason. I sometimes saw their programs when visiting a relative's house. Even then, they had cable--a very long one that ran up to the top of the mountain where there was a tall aerial and could pick up other stations.

These days I scarcely watch any television. I just long interest when Wonder Woman and Solid Gold went off the air.

 

[2jakes]

My respects to your family with regards to Arlington.



With reference to "comedians".

Growing up in the 1950s with only one black & white television.
It was the 30's serials, Little Rascals, 40's Merrie Melodies
and the closest thing to "worship" was Gene & Roy as they rode
into the sunset. These were my "heroes" as a kid.

The comedians you've mentioned are very familiar.
But only because that's what the adults would watch on our
2-station small town most nights.
Saturday mornings was reserved for "kids".

I particularly didn't care nor did I find it funny with Ralph &
his treatment of Alice.
Same with Archie Bunker from a later period.
Relating to it was not my idea of entertainment.

Although just a kid, I was aware that mothers hardly wore
high heels or fancy dress doing kitchen work like Lucy, Donna,
Harriet or June Cleaver.
Molly Goldberg being the exception.

Television was for the most part our main source of
low-budget entertainment in the '50s.

And as far as the "actual 50's"?

It wasn't "Happy Days".

 

[Bigger Don]

Seems every collection of partisans wishes to hijack the flag as theirs alone. Hell, by all outward indications, some think they alone own the language. "Freedom," for instance, is only what they say it is.

This partisan is a partisan for the Constitution which, IMO, limits government power not the people's freedom. Unfortunately, <long diatribe lambasting the major political parties omitted by the author> ....

 

[LizzieMaine]

Because we only received a single television station where we lived, we missed out on anything that was on CBS, including Red Skelton and someone no one has mentioned so far, Jackie Gleason.

Of all the comedians who came to prominence in the 1950s, Gleason was the one true genius. He was less a "comedian" in the sense of someone who says funny things than he was one of the greatest comic actors who ever lived -- other comics "did" characters, but Gleason *became* characters. Studying his technique is like taking a graduate course in character comedy.

A hundred years from now, the only 1950s TV comedian anyone will remember is Jackie Gleason. Sid Caesar was a very funny performer, Steve Allen had his moments, Jack Paar had his -- but Gleason was, just like they called him, "The Great One."

 

[LizzieMaine]

That's the one problem I have with Don Rickles. I've seen him perform live twice, and at the end of his act both times he apologized to anyone in the audience that he might have offended. I imagine he began doing this because he'd had a confrontation or two with some knucklehead who couldn't take a joke, but even after the fact it took all of the impact out of his act.

Breaking character is the one thing a comic should never, ever do. It's the same thing that used to bother me about Skelton -- he'd be doing a bit, and then he'd start snickering at how funny he was, and that completely broke the moment. Especially because I always had the sneaking idea that he was breaking up deliberately. It's one thing to break up at some weird thing that happens during the performance -- but when you break up every week, in the same way, something's fishy.

 

[2jakes]

I enjoy Gleason now than when I watched him "live" in living black & white on the box.

The fact that Alice (Audrey Meadows) is next to him helps.

Without her is like watching Mr. Laurel without Mr. Hardy.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Gleason had the great good sense as a performer to realize that his characters were all reactive rather than proactive, which is why he was very careful to surround himself with a supporting cast capable of giving him something to react to.

But even when he was on the stage alone he was reacting rather than pro-acting -- the Poor Soul never initiates his problems, he stumbles into a situation and it happens to him. Joe the Bartender doesn't do anything but stand behind his bar and talk about things that happened to other people. And Ralph Kramden is the greatest re-actor of all -- everything he does is in reaction to the hostile world he finds himself inhabiting.

The one major Gleason character who broke this mold -- Charlie the Loudmouth -- is the one that fell by the wayside because audiences disliked him intensely. Gleason as a proactive character is just too overbearing a force for television.

 

[tonyb]

This partisan is a partisan for the Constitution which, IMO, limits government power not the people's freedom. Unfortunately, <long diatribe lambasting the major political parties omitted by the author> ....

Surely you know that laws by their very nature limit freedom. The speed limit restricts my freedom to drive as fast as I might wish. I am not free to help myself to whatever I want. Et cetera. No reasonable person would dispute this.

And surely you know that the Constitution means whatever the Court says it means. There was a time when the Court determined that the Constitution offered certain people no freedoms at all.

As with "freedom" and the flag, certain partisans seem to think they own the Constitution as well, that it means whatever they say it means, and that's that.

 

[LizzieMaine]

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

-- Through The Looking Glass

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

-Janis Joplin

 

[Inkstainedwretch]

I don't believe anyone has mentioned Ernie Kovacs. Along with Sid Caesar, he was the rare experimental comedian. Most of the comics brought their old vaudeville, radio or movie acts to tv. Kovacs thought tv was a new medium and that new acts, skits and schticks should be tried out. Like most experiments, many failed, but the successes were gold. He flirted with surreality and sometimes his skits were so abstract that the audience simply couldn't grasp what was going on. He excelled at sight gags. The kettledrum full of pudding was a classic. He had a European sense of absurdity. Think of the Nairobi Trio and you won't get that tune out of your head for a week. He flirted with homosexual characters. His perpetually pickled poet Percy Dovetonsils was probably the first flamboyantly effeminate character on tv. Well, there was Liberace, but he wasn't pretending. Kovacs deserves a long retrospective.

 

[tonyb]

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

-Janis Joplin

Um, try Kris Kristofferson and Fred Foster.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I don't believe anyone has mentioned Ernie Kovacs. Along with Sid Caesar, he was the rare experimental comedian. Most of the comics brought their old vaudeville, radio or movie acts to tv. Kovacs thought tv was a new medium and that new acts, skits and schticks should be tried out. Like most experiments, many failed, but the successes were gold. He flirted with surreality and sometimes his skits were so abstract that the audience simply couldn't grasp what was going on. He excelled at sight gags. The kettledrum full of pudding was a classic. He had a European sense of absurdity. Think of the Nairobi Trio and you won't get that tune out of your head for a week. He flirted with homosexual characters. His perpetually pickled poet Percy Dovetonsils was probably the first flamboyantly effeminate character on tv. Well, there was Liberace, but he wasn't pretending. Kovacs deserves a long retrospective.

Kovacs was brilliant in a way that no other comedian of this time was brilliant -- he played with perceptions in a way that hadn't been considered since the earliest days of silent film. I discovered his stuff when PBS did a long retrospective in the mid-70s, and was spellbound. The Nairobi Trio still makes me laugh, even though it's ridiculous and senseless -- it's Dada comedy. He was fifty years ahead of his time, and if he had lived long enough to see the internet, who knows what he'd be creating.

The tune, by the way, was "Solfeggio: The Do-Re-Mi Song," written and recorded in April of 1954 by "Robert Maxwell and his Music," with the vocal performed by the Ray Charles Singers, and released on the MGM label. Kovacs happened to hear this record, and composed the visuals of the sketch to fit its rhythm -- it was his extended commentary on the precious cutesiness of the music, and of mid-fifties pop music in general.

 

[BlueTrain]

Everything was new at some point in time, no less in entertainment than anywhere else. But originality is only worth so much; it has to be followed up with a good performance, too. You many not have like rock and roll (or jazz or Mozart or whatever) but some were very good musicians. There is a reason pop music is called pop music. Some might say that real folk music is awful, too.

Popular comedians and actors are sometimes parodied. Some are very easy to make fun of, even when the person has such high status that few dare to make fun of him. Here, I'm thinking of John Wayne, with his peculiar walk and way of speaking. But only recently did I realize that a few individuals are such good actors (this is mainly about actors and actresses) that they have no mannerisms that can be parodied. Spencer Tracy comes to mind and there are undoubtedly others but I doubt that it means they invariably appear in wonderful movie. Jimmy Stuart appeared in wonderful movies but he had as many affected mannerisms as John Wayne. So maybe it's a weak theory.

 

[Bigger Don]

Surely you know that laws by their very nature limit freedom.

Surely you know that the founders of this country did not favor anarchy. IOW, they accepted the necessity of government but sought to limit its powers by defining them explicitly.

The speed limit restricts my freedom to drive as fast as I might wish.

Surely you know that there is no individual right to drive on public roads and streets, hence licensure, unlike the right to vote, exercise 1st Amendment rights of expression, deny warrantless searches when requested, etc etc etc.

OTOH, I would question the government's authority to regulate regulate speed on private property while demanding they protect the electorate by denying votes for those not qualified and multiple votes for those qualified to vote.

I am not free to help myself to whatever I want.

Really? Surely you know that the Federal government has taken on the power to re-assign wealth simply by passing a law or, more egregious to my thinking, Executive branch regulation without specific legislative permission.

And surely you know that the Constitution means whatever the Court says it means.

Surely you know that was a known short-coming. The Founders knew there must be some end-point to checks and balances. A Court that goes beyond the Constitution in its interpretations should be impeached. Unfortunately, the tendencies of organizations, especially governments, includes growing in power and size.

There was a time when the Court determined that the Constitution offered certain people no freedoms at all.

Surely you know that the Constitution, before the 13th Amendment, explicitly recognized slavery and the inherent lake of rights of slaves.

As with "freedom" and the flag, certain partisans seem to think they own the Constitution as well, that it means whatever they say it means, and that's that.

Surely you don't mean to insinuate this is true of only one set of partisans.

 

[tonyb]

Surely you know that the founders of this country did not favor anarchy. IOW, they accepted the necessity of government but sought to limit its powers by defining them explicitly.

Surely you know that there is no individual right to drive on public roads and streets, hence licensure, unlike the right to vote, exercise 1st Amendment rights of expression, deny warrantless searches when requested, etc etc etc.

OTOH, I would question the government's authority to regulate regulate speed on private property while demanding they protect the electorate by denying votes for those not qualified and multiple votes for those qualified to vote.
Really? Surely you know that the Federal government has taken on the power to re-assign wealth simply by passing a law or, more egregious to my thinking, Executive branch regulation without specific legislative permission.


Surely you know that was a known short-coming. The Founders knew there must be some end-point to checks and balances. A Court that goes beyond the Constitution in its interpretations should be impeached. Unfortunately, the tendencies of organizations, especially governments, includes growing in power and size.

Surely you know that the Constitution, before the 13th Amendment, explicitly recognized slavery and the inherent lake of rights of slaves.
Surely you don't mean to insinuate this is true of only one set of partisans.

Lemme guess, you would identify as a libertarian. And an absolutist at that.

Does the Court not determine what the Constitution means? No matter what you or I might think of that? Surely they've handed down decisions to which you would take exception.

The Founders were people of privilege. Property owners. Slave holders. White. Male. Some might think their efforts were divinely inspired. If that were the case, the Divine was something of a bigot.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Popular comedians and actors are sometimes parodied. Some are very easy to make fun of, even when the person has such high status that few dare to make fun of him. Here, I'm thinking of John Wayne, with his peculiar walk and way of speaking. But only recently did I realize that a few individuals are such good actors (this is mainly about actors and actresses) that they have no mannerisms that can be parodied. Spencer Tracy comes to mind and there are undoubtedly others but I doubt that it means they invariably appear in wonderful movie. Jimmy Stuart appeared in wonderful movies but he had as many affected mannerisms as John Wayne. So maybe it's a weak theory.

I think the ultimate example of the kind of protean actor who was impervious to parody was Paul Muni -- there was no "Paul Muni" screen persona to be satirized, instead Muni himself *became* Pasteur, Zola, a chain-gang prisoner, a Chinese peasant, or whatever other role it was that he was assigned. He was a "modern" actor twenty years before it became fashionable in Hollywood to be a "modern" actor.

Contrast him with people like Bogart, Cagney, Gable, Grant, Stewart, et. al. and you'll see what I mean. Anybody can do a half-baked imitation of any of these performers without even stopping to think about it. But nobody can do an "imitation" of Paul Muni, because there was no "Paul Muni" to imitate.

 

[Trenchfriend]

Al Pacino, probably one of the most parodied actors all over the world. In Europe a real classic, too.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The Founders were people of privilege. Property owners. Slave holders. White. Male. Some might think their efforts were divinely inspired. If that were the case, the Divine was something of a bigot.

"Founder Worship" in which "The Constitution" is exalted to the level of Holy Writ might seem like the 100 Per Cent American substitue for an official state religion, but it's also a relatively recent invention. The cult in its current recognizable, consistent form was created in the late 1930s under the auspicies of a front group of the National Association of Manufacturers, in an attempt to undermine public support for the New Deal. It subsequently became the fundamental civic theology of the John Birch Society, which is most responsible for spreading it into mainstream thought thru various fronts and offshoots from the 1950s onward.

 

[St.Ignatz]

I don't believe anyone has mentioned Ernie Kovacs. Along with Sid Caesar, he was the rare experimental comedian. Most of the comics brought their old vaudeville, radio or movie acts to tv. Kovacs thought tv was a new medium and that new acts, skits and schticks should be tried out. Like most experiments, many failed, but the successes were gold. He flirted with surreality and sometimes his skits were so abstract that the audience simply couldn't grasp what was going on. He excelled at sight gags. The kettledrum full of pudding was a classic. He had a European sense of absurdity. Think of the Nairobi Trio and you won't get that tune out of your head for a week. He flirted with homosexual characters. His perpetually pickled poet Percy Dovetonsils was probably the first flamboyantly effeminate character on tv. Well, there was Liberace, but he wasn't pretending. Kovacs deserves a long retrospective.

My favorite Percy moment was an adlib. He lifted his glass and remarked "it appears someone has put a goldfish in my martini not to worry. He doesn't drink much and the olive won't fit in his mouth". You could hear the crew chuckling in the background. Still puts a smile on my face.

Tom D.