Teddy Boy Rock'n'Roll

[H.Johnson]

Gene Vincent...

... a broad definition of 'Teddy Boy'!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

rather.

bk

 

[tempestbella42]

Hi Guys,
Just picked up on your post on Teddy Boys, and thought I'd come and say hi, so 'HI' I'm a Teddy Boy, I live in England, in a town called York and I'm also a member of www.federation-of-teddyboys.co.uk <http://www.federation-of-teddyboys.co.uk>, pop in and say hi sometime. The Teddy Boy scene at the moment is a worldwide thing, and definitely shows no sign of dying down, even though in the fifties it was, described as a passing fad that would only last a few months. Basically, nowadays you have two main types of Teddy Boy you have the 1950s style Ted, of which I am even though I was not a part of the fifties and you have the 1970s style, more colorful and came about in a huge revival of the Ted scene, then also unfortunately you get the idiots that tag along, we call them 'Jive Bunnies' ask any Ted about them and he'll tell you a few tales I bet. Personally I became a Ted in 1980, following on from the 70's revival I had a few colourful Drape jackets and crepe soled shoes to match, now I'm more into the 50s Ted style, a much smarter look I think. We have regular Rockin events all around Britain, and in our 'club' we have members in USA, Brazil, Russia, Australia, Japan and I recon every part of Europe, so yes its well alive and we are very proud to call ourselves Teddy Boys. I recognise and know well a few faces in the photos on this thread, and unfortunately one guy in the photos only died two days ago, one great thing about the English Teddy Boy scene, you can travel anywhare in the UK to a rock n roll gig and you know and recognise people, its just like one big family. Any questions please feel free to ask, I'm on teddyboy53@googlemail.com <mailto:teddyboy53@googlemail.com> if you want and I'm gonna enjoy looking through this Forum of yours, looks very interesting.

Rockin Regards

Jim the English Ted

hi Jim,
welcome to the forum...
although weve proberbly met in real life!

i was a teddy girl in the late 1970s/80s.....my dad was in the 1950s and again in the 70s/80s after him and mum divorced!!
He lived in Leeds and we used to go to The Whip, ( he was known as Geordie) i hung round in the pool cafe ...... but thats off topic here!! :eusa_doh: :eusa_doh:


i used to weatr a drape jcket with pencil skirt and strangly enough the other day decided thats my fav eva outfit.....decided to get one again...be black or charchoal gret, with waistcoat and calf length pencil skirt! moon pockets not the "showaddywaddy" ones! will find some photos out!

heres a good site with the look for girls now...http://homepage.ntlworld.com/micheal.cookson/nifty50s/teds_corner.html

ive been offline for a couple of weeks will check myspace to see who your on about Jim!!

 

[teddyboy53]

hi Jim,
welcome to the forum...
although weve proberbly met in real life!

i was a teddy girl in the late 1970s/80s.....my dad was in the 1950s and again in the 70s/80s after him and mum divorced!!
He lived in Leeds and we used to go to The Whip, ( he was known as Geordie) i hung round in the pool cafe ...... but thats off topic here!! :eusa_doh: :eusa_doh:


i used to weatr a drape jcket with pencil skirt and strangly enough the other day decided thats my fav eva outfit.....decided to get one again...be black or charchoal gret, with waistcoat and calf length pencil skirt! moon pockets not the "showaddywaddy" ones! will find some photos out!

heres a good site with the look for girls now...http://homepage.ntlworld.com/micheal.cookson/nifty50s/teds_corner.html

ive been offline for a couple of weeks will check myspace to see who your on about Jim!!

Hi yes i remember the whip and the palace , lots of the old leeds lot on myspace, Melbourne, Ady, Rockin Nidge, I'm on

http://www.myspace.com/teddyboy53

Give me a shout, some good friends on that site, just checked it out.

Jim

 

[mike]

... a broad definition of 'Teddy Boy'!

Not really. Gene Vincent, Eddie Cochran, Jerry Lee Lewis and Bill Haley were some of the first American Rock n Roll artists to actually play in the UK. Gene Vincent settled there for the remaining years of his life in part because America basically turned its back on him and he continued to have die hard fans (read: teds) in the UK and Europe through to the day he died! These original performers became legendary (if they weren't already.) They weren't "teds" themselves, but absolutely the basis for the movement. ...In my humble opinion

 

[mike]

Tempest and TeddyBoy, great to meet you and thanks for posting! Can I ask, who was the older ted that past away the other day? I doubt I know him but I have been on some various websites for years including Hawk's Rockhouse & Myspace talking to different folks. Sorry to hear about your loss, whoever he is.

 

[H.Johnson]

As you say, whether Gene Vincent was a Teddy Boy or an influence on them is a matter of opinion. All I can add, as someone who 'was there at the time' and who saw him play live twice, is that there weren't many (if any) Teddy Boys in the audience. Nor did his records feature on juke boxes where Teddy Boys hung out (in my area anyway).

In fact, the image that Mr. Vincent's management sought to project on him (the black leather clad bike rebel) was anathema to real Teddy Boys, who usually fought with Rockers when the two groups met.

The early Rockers adored him, but a Teddy Boy, he was not... I am aware is now looked back on as 'one of them' by the modern 'Teddy Boy' movement, but I can assure you that he wasn't at the time.

Just my opinion, of course.

Not really. Gene Vincent, Eddie Cochran, Jerry Lee Lewis and Bill Haley were some of the first American Rock n Roll artists to actually play in the UK. Gene Vincent settled there for the remaining years of his life in part because America basically turned its back on him and he continued to have die hard fans (read: teds) in the UK and Europe through to the day he died! These original performers became legendary (if they weren't already.) They weren't "teds" themselves, but absolutely the basis for the movement. ...In my humble opinion

 

[Edward]

Not really. Gene Vincent, Eddie Cochran, Jerry Lee Lewis and Bill Haley were some of the first American Rock n Roll artists to actually play in the UK. Gene Vincent settled there for the remaining years of his life in part because America basically turned its back on him and he continued to have die hard fans (read: teds) in the UK and Europe through to the day he died! These original performers became legendary (if they weren't already.) They weren't "teds" themselves, but absolutely the basis for the movement. ...In my humble opinion

I had the impression that some (if not, as HJ says, all) of the original rock and roll stars were looked up to by the Teds if not exactly Teds themselves. Seems to me, at least in their first few decades in a non-globalised world, Teds were very much an English thing, whereas the early rock and roll stars in that first generation were Americans. I am certainly no authority, but I have also read that Teds predate rock and roll by a year or two, though they quickly embraced it when it did come along.

Hi sorry if this an old post dragged up, but hats on Teddyboys, flat caps are your best bet, made popular by Gene Vincent, never saw any other type of hat on a Ted, apart from maybe a top hat on Screaming Lord Sutch, now he was a nice guy

Hi, thanks, yeah, I tried out the flatcaps / newsboys, but I'm not convinced they work with a longer line jacket.... ended up with a pp in the end:

With hat:

Without:

I've got two Ted drape coats from a company called Clout. Anyone know anything about them?

Alls I know is they're an English company, which makes their jackets in England. Nice cut and fair quality, good option on a budget (like what I have above as well) - providing you can (and here I believe I can hear the tightening of several unmentionable muscles, lol ) cope with Polyester.... (yeah, one day I'll go to Colin Taub.....).

The jacket in this picture (bought and worn as a replication of Richard O'Brien's garb in The Crystal Maze, one of many Rocky Horror Show related costumes in my wardrobe) is a Clout:

Not a bad jacket; quality wise, pretty close on the one above. I bought it from the (now closed due to retirement) Violet Promotions people in the UK. One big drawback: only one internal pocket, and all the pockets on the outside are faux. That's fine in that it helps maintain a smooth line and everything, but I much prefer to have the two internal pockets and four real external pockets on the Unicorn Designs coat in the top two pictures.

 

[teddyboy53]

Tempest and TeddyBoy, great to meet you and thanks for posting! Can I ask, who was the older ted that past away the other day? I doubt I know him but I have been on some various websites for years including Hawk's Rockhouse & Myspace talking to different folks. Sorry to hear about your loss, whoever he is.

Hi, thanks for asking, in the photos posted on this thread you can see two oldish twins, Howard and Roy, it was Howard who lost his battle with cancer just the other day, althought spread worldwide, with the help of forums and such, were just one big rockin family, you get to know every one in the rockin scene.

Jim

 

[teddyboy53]

When the Teds first appeared on the scene, it was before rock n roll was really invented, but it came along and we adopted it, non ot the singers as far as i know were Teddy Boys, Wee Willie Harris was known for wearing a drape, but i don't know of any well know ones doing the same. I think the music of Gene and Eddie, Bill Haley and all the well known ones, was just so fantastic and always will be. Teds and Rock n Roll, just go together, not sure if it was meant to be like that, but it happened and it stuck.

Anyway as for Drape jackets, the thing nowadays seems to be heading towards the early fifties style of very minimal velvet, usualy just a half collar ond nothing else, but its all down to personall taste, there was a brief moment in the eighties for the French Teds to wear drapes right down to the ankle, i did have photos someware, so if i ever find them i'll stick em on

Jim

 

[tempestbella42]

Hi, thanks for asking, in the photos posted on this thread you can see two oldish twins, Howard and Roy, it was Howard who lost his battle with cancer just the other day, althought spread worldwide, with the help of forums and such, were just one big rockin family, you get to know every one in the rockin scene.

Jim

id read Howard was ill, and in hospital but not that hed lost his battle!
i thought you were on about Les Bailey! from the origonal CSA :eusa_doh:

most Teds i know still prefer the British rock n roll sound! we did have some home grown stars!! tommy steele , tony Crombie!! Johnny kidd, Vince taylor and of course Cliff Richard among many!
Gene Vincent and Eddie cochran being the two main American stars teds love...both ending up in the UK for differant reasons!

my friend dated a french ted in the 1980s....he "appeared " half way through an alldayer in an ankle length White drape!!!..........it didnt last after that!!

 

[mike]

I recently relistened to some of the mid 60's Vince Taylor recordings and I absolutely love his reworkings of earlier classics!

 

[H.Johnson]

As often happens, history is constructed later by people who weren't there, rather than being experienced at first hand by people who were...

 

[mike]

As often happens, history is constructed later by people who weren't there, rather than being experienced at first hand by people who were...

That probably happens a lot more often than we know actually. The name "Egypt" if memory serves isn't written on any 2700 BC pyramid wall but rather a later term describing those people by... I forget who or when, I just woke up :eusa_doh: But the point is, if you could go back in time and speak with imhotep or djozer or anyone from the old kingdom original dynasties, we'd probably be pretty surprised how much of their life and culture the Romans 1500 years later basically presumed and over time became what we know to be fact. And now for some coffee

 

[dhermann1]

The name "Teddy"

I read the first and last pages of this thread, and sort of skimmed the rest, so forgive me if I missed this. But my understanding of the source of the term "teddy" is that it's the line from Buddy Holly's song, "I'm Ready Ready Teddy to Rock and Roll". This song came out I assume around 1957?
Does the term Teddy Boy predate this song? If the song is indeed the source of the name, what were these guys called before that?
Getting an identifying "label" is a two edged sword. It gives a movement a name and sense of identity to coalesce around, but it tends to limit its free form unselfconscious evolution and development. I would bet that the "movement" started right after the war, at least elements of it. Maybe even during.
And what, if any, relation does it bear to skiffle?

 

[Edward]

I read the first and last pages of this thread, and sort of skimmed the rest, so forgive me if I missed this. But my understanding of the source of the term "teddy" is that it's the line from Buddy Holly's song, "I'm Ready Ready Teddy to Rock and Roll". This song came out I assume around 1957?
Does the term Teddy Boy predate this song? If the song is indeed the source of the name, what were these guys called before that?
Getting an identifying "label" is a two edged sword. It gives a movement a name and sense of identity to coalesce around, but it tends to limit its free form unselfconscious evolution and development. I would bet that the "movement" started right after the war, at least elements of it. Maybe even during.
And what, if any, relation does it bear to skiffle?

my understanding is that the 'Ted' label derives from 'Edwardian'. The very first Teds were upper class/ upper middle class military men who had suits made in a mock Edwardian style. This was quickly copied by working class guys, who developed into the Ted movement we know of today.

 

[dhermann1]

my understanding is that the 'Ted' label derives from 'Edwardian'. The very first Teds were upper class/ upper middle class military men who had suits made in a mock Edwardian style. This was quickly copied by working class guys, who developed into the Ted movement we know of today.

That makes so much more sense than the Buddy Holly explanation. And as far as skiffle is concerned, I assume they were unrelated at best, antagonistic at worst?

 

[tempestbella42]

in relation to the skittle connection.....and i only know from my dad who was a Ted in the mid 1950s (till his national service in 1956) but he loved skittle....lonnie donnigan was/is one of his favourites and reminds him of his youth!! skittle bands were all over, unlike the old tea chests that everyone converted into bases he says! and that was maybe because it was an easy sound to recreate cheaply!

 

[H.Johnson]

my understanding is that the 'Ted' label derives from 'Edwardian'. The very first Teds were upper class/ upper middle class military men who had suits made in a mock Edwardian style. This was quickly copied by working class guys, who developed into the Ted movement we know of today.

Correct. The dress code was adopted by young men who frequented the 'male scene' in and around Chelsea - some of them possibly guards officers (ahem!). I think it didn't have a name at first, but I believe that a newspaper article (sorry, can't remember which 'paper) first described the mode of dress as, 'The New Edwardian style' - hence 'Teddy Boys'.

'Skiffle' came as an offshoot of 'Trad Jazz' or 'Dixieland' which was the really popular music among young people in the UK before Rock'n'Roll. Interest in jazz and 'Barrelhouse' music from the Southern USA exposed young Britishers to the music of Huddie Leadbetter and assorted 'jug bands'. This was easier to play than jazz and allowed the use of cheap (e.g. washboards) and home made (e.g. teachest bases) instruments. Lonnie Donegan had, of course, played in some serious jazz bands before he recorded any 'Skiffle'.

Just my opinion, of course,

 

[tempestbella42]

Correct. The dress code was adopted by young men who frequented the 'male scene' in and around Chelsea - some of them possibly guards officers (ahem!). I think it didn't have a name at first, but I believe that a newspaper article (sorry, can't remember which 'paper) first described the mode of dress as, 'The New Edwardian style' - hence 'Teddy Boys'.

'Skiffle' came as an offshoot of 'Trad Jazz' or 'Dixieland' which was the really popular music among young people in the UK before Rock'n'Roll. Interest in jazz and 'Barrelhouse' music from the Southern USA exposed young Britishers to the music of Huddie Leadbetter and assorted 'jug bands'. This was easier to play than jazz and allowed the use of cheap (e.g. washboards) and home made (e.g. teachest bases) instruments. Lonnie Donegan had, of course, played in some serious jazz bands before he recorded any 'Skiffle'.

Just my opinion, of course,

:eusa_clap i agree And put mach better than i ever could....