Tattoos.

[Dr Doran]

We are all gentlemen and ladies, and the Dutchman has the right to his opinion as do we all.

I also have this innate sense that it is indicative of savagery.

Well, in some respects I AM a savage ... AND THE LADIES LOVE ME FOR IT. (hee hee)

You really want to be a rebel? Get a haircut, dress neatly, and speak clearly in proper English. You'll definitely be bucking the trend then.

I actually do agree with you: in the current youth/counter-"culture" with its climate of utterly gratuitous subversion, it IS more interesting to be proper, to speak English well, to dress neatly, to have nicely groomed hair. I do all those things. I can speak beautiful English. On a good day, I can even speak proper French, Italian, Latin, and Ancient Greek. I wear a suit every day and have a neat haircut ... however, I am also tattooed ... it's hidden by the clothing. Only my intimates see the ink. (that was intimates, not inmates)

(Pumpernickel, I first heard about Fakir IN the book Modern Primitives, mentioned supra. My old girlfriend used to see him in Palo Alto in the 1980s, "a businessman with a bone in his nose." Another girlfriend much later told me that she worked in Musafar's wife's dungeon in or near Menlo Park.)

 

[TheKitschGoth]

You really want to be a rebel? Get a haircut, dress neatly, and speak clearly in proper English. You'll definitely be bucking the trend then.

How about dressing neatlky, speaking clearly in proper English and getting tattoos and piercings

 

[Edward]

Interesting thread.... I've long considered a tat to my own design and based on an expression of personal faith... I'm in the process of completely finalising the design and being certain of it. A lot of folks I am aware feel tats are "unbiblical" - never been something I've had a conviction of (but then I don't follow the dietary rules laid out in Leviticas either). I'm planning a specific take on the phoenix rising from the flames - used as a religious symbol in the 1st Century AD and a symbolism that has strong personal significance too. I've wanted that for a good eight years or so now, so I figure I'm not rushing into it! In general my opinion is that it's up to folks to chose their own body mods. My personal aesthetic sensibility is that tattoos, on ladies in particular, can be very sexy indeed - but so is bare skin. All things in moderation and all that! I do think there's a lot to be said for the idea of keeping tattoos in a place where they can be kept out of sight if needsbe - it might be important for those who need to cover up for a job, whether that's working in an office, Disneyland (Disney I gather have a strict anti-tattoo policy as regards employees, though I don't know whether that applies only to visible tattoos once employeee is in uniform), or acting (Brad Majors' disgusted "Certainly not!" response when asked if he has any tattoos isn't gonig to work if he's got a six inch leaping cat on his arm!). I wouldn't want one exposed to the sun too much either as that can damage it - well, sun exposure damages the skin, really, but if it's the skin the tat is on... For me, this side to it isn't so much about bowing the "the man" as preserving the chameleon ability, rather than being limited to one look because of tattoo placement. Ultimately, though, if someone isn't sure about getting one because they might change their mind at 80, or for whatever reason, then I'm inclined to the view that they don't really want it and so shouldn't have it done. No shame in that - a permanent mark needs to be a serious decision.

One thing that I think also needs to be considered is that tattooing has come a long way since the 1940s - inks have improved, the tech has improved.... obviously some degradation over time must still happen, plus there's the effect of skin aging, but in terms of tattoos blurring, I don't think we can look to inks that were done way back and assume that what we might get done now in 2007 would go the same way as quickly.... (I'd love to hear from any actual tattooists on that score).

 

[Fatdutchman]

The original question basically was "what was the attitude toward tattoos in the 20's-'40's". I believe my own opinion is pretty much what the prevailing opinion was at that time.

I don't care what anyone does. I might be saddened by it, or even occasionally repulsed by it, but I have no desire to tell anyone they couldn't do such things. Even if I had the power to do so, that would not exactly be high on my list of priorities.

 

[MrPumpernickel]

(Pumpernickel, I first heard about Fakir IN the book Modern Primitives, mentioned supra. My old girlfriend used to see him in Palo Alto in the 1980s, "a businessman with a bone in his nose." Another girlfriend much later told me that she worked in Musafar's wife's dungeon in or near Menlo Park.)

That's really cool, in some ways living where I do makes me feel quite detached from performers which frequent countries down on the continent and the US of A (not to mention South Asian countries as well). I wasn't sure which Modern Primitives book you read though (there are a few since "Modern Primitives" has become somewhat of a catch phrase) so I thought I'd mention him anyway. I can thoroughly recommend the documentary Dances Sacred and Profane (1987) which follows Fakir as he tells about his experiences and so forth. It was just relased on DVD last year or so and it's well worth checking out for anyone even remotely interested in the body modification field.

One thing that I think also needs to be considered is that tattooing has come a long way since the 1940s - inks have improved, the tech has improved.... obviously some degradation over time must still happen, plus there's the effect of skin aging, but in terms of tattoos blurring, I don't think we can look to inks that were done way back and assume that what we might get done now in 2007 would go the same way as quickly.... (I'd love to hear from any actual tattooists on that score).

While I'm not a tattoo artist I'm heavily into the whole field of body mods. As for tattoo inks they have indeed come some way since the 1940s, but that's mostly getting rid of toxic substances which they not seldomly contained (such as cadmium, mercury or lead for instance). As for sustainability over time ink improvements can only do so much. Since skin cells are replaced over time, since the sun bleaches the tattoos (or can accellerate other reactions, such as allergic reactions) and so forth tattoos will change as your body does. Typically light colors will become lighter and lighter. Fine detail will blur and eventually may be far from what it was when you first tattooed it. The best color for sustainability is black, hands down it will last the longest and look the best 20 years from now. Though, you can always go back and retouch your tattos to make them regain some of that previous shine.

Typically how you treat your skin will come across in how good your tattoo will last. Expose it needlessly to the sun and it will deteriorate faster than otherwise. Use a lot of deep cleansing products and the same can happen. Though, to be fair we're talking in most cases over quite a few years here, not over the course of a few weeks or months.

You can read the tattoo faq over at bmezine.com (http://wiki.bmezine.com/index.php/Tattoo_FAQ) which explains quite a few things about inks. Especially read section 8.

 

[Edward]

While I'm not a tattoo artist I'm heavily into the whole field of body mods.....

Thanks!

 

[Pink Dahlia]

I don't know. I guess I figured it's the year 2007 and I assumed people would be more open minded by now. But I am shocked at all the negative replies in this thread associated with tattoos. I was especially taken aback at the aversion toward women with tattoos. Granted everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

So here's mine. I have three tattoos and I don't regret a single one. I did not get them for anyone else. They all mean something special to me. So if you are bothered by this woman who has tattoos it's probably best not to message me.

 

[Dr Doran]

How about dressing neatlky, speaking clearly in proper English and getting tattoos and piercings

Isn't that what I JUST said (though less economically than thee)?

 

[Dr Doran]

But I am shocked at all the negative replies in this thread associated with tattoos. I was especially taken aback at the aversion toward women with tattoos.

Expressing shock often gets people to overreact ... and discussions thusly deteriorate ...

Granted everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Now THAT is a sentiment I wholeheartedly support.

 

[MrPumpernickel]

People think self done body mods (especially scarification pieces) are equal to Self Injury, like cutting or something along those lines. Never the case for me.

Not only that but a lot of people consider mods done by other people on yourself as self injury as well. The logic behind that eludes me.

People have verbally attacked me because I do suspension (i.e. suspending myself from hooks through my skin) and it never ceases to amaze he how people make baseless assumptions on my person, calling me by various derogatory comments, just because I choose to do what I do. I'm not hurting anyone but myself in the end of the day and it's all done under safe circumstances after all.

 

[griffer]

/cue crotchety reactionary stance

Only Jezebells and Sailors get tattoos!

Harlots and sodomites if you ask me!

 

[Rooster]

I don't know. I guess I figured it's the year 2007 and I assumed people would be more open minded by now. But I am shocked at all the negative replies in this thread associated with tattoos. I was especially taken aback at the aversion toward women with tattoos. Granted everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

So here's mine. I have three tattoos and I don't regret a single one. I did not get them for anyone else. They all mean something special to me. So if you are bothered by this woman who has tattoos it's probably best not to message me.

I think it's probably a generational thing. I don't care for tatts, but that's more a reflection of my age and conservatism more than anything else. Maybe if I were in my 30's or younger I'd have a different view. I think of tatts as something you got in the navy and nice young women NEVER got. Abviously my thinking is not in style any onger.
I must say, if I were in the position to hire employees I'd not be hiring any one with visible tatts, but that probaly just shows my age and conservatism again.
Oh well, if you enjoys tatts go for it, none of my business....

 

[Tommy Fedora]

Right or wrong, the subject of tats always gets a reaction.
I always wanted a tattoo but always in a casual way. If it was that important to me I would have done it. Now that I'm older and my son wants a tattoo I realize that its fashion and his decision anyway. He wants us to get the same tattoo, the three legged symbol of Sicily on our right shoulders. Mom freaks but I don't think its such a bad idea.
What freaks me is the people that go off the deep end and try to become a leopard or something else with tattoo's. They are not what I would call well-adjusted.

 

[Fatdutchman]

I kind of find myself surprised that so many people posting on a message board devoted to classic style ARE into tattoos, nose rings, etc.

 

[Dr Doran]

/cue crotchety reactionary stance

Only Jezebells and Sailors get tattoos!

Harlots and sodomites if you ask me!

The inner functionings hereby displayed for all ... X-Ray vision is marvelous. I wish I had it. Dutchman, you have a point: it is a little odd that tattooees love classic style. But that just goes to show that people can always surprise us.

 

[Dr Doran]

Of all the people I've come into contact with, the most heavily modified people were usually the most easy going, friendly and accepting. And BEING a member of the modded community, well....I can say most "normal" people aren't nearly as kind. I think that says something. It reminds me of a quote I once heard. Something like "The only truth that exists is the one which allows all other truths."

You are lucky. I have many tattoos; but in the early 90s I noted that many of the "modified" were very snobby about their tattoos and piercings and thought themselves a cut (no pun intended) above the rest. Maybe they were just young in the 90s?

 

[Mike1939]

 

[J. M. Stovall]

When they stop hating the world, they'll start hating their tattoos. /QUOTE]

I don't understand what having a tattoo has to do with hating the world. Seems to me the people without tattoos are at the root of most of the world's troubles.

 

[TheKitschGoth]

Isn't that what I JUST said (though less economically than thee)?

Yeah.. I read your post after I posted :eusa_doh:

I don't understand what having a tattoo has to do with hating the world. Seems to me the people without tattoos are at the root of most of the world's troubles.

I think RedBeard was on about the teens who get tattoos as a form of rebellion against a world they feel like they hate, and so the tattos will always remain a symbol of that hate even when they've matured and realised they were a little pretentious.

 

[Red Beard]

Thanks TheKitschGoth, you're exactly right.