Sweatband and Glue...?

[bolthead]

I was wondering, I noticed on a few beaters that I came across that I have taken apart, that the sweatbands were glued & sewed.

What I'd like to know is, what type of glue is used to hold it in place? And do they still do this? [huh]

 

[woodsie]

Glue?

I was wondering, I noticed on a few beaters that I came across that I have taken apart, that the sweatbands were glued & sewed.

What I'd like to know is, what type of glue is used to hold it in place? And do they still do this? [huh]

What kind of glue? The kind that bonds different objects together, of course.[huh]

 

[KY Gentleman]

I would recommend "FabriTac" fabric glue. You can find it in craft stores.
I'm sure you could use a multitude of other products but this is what has worked for me. I hope that helps.

 

[Magus]

I would hesitate to glue in a sweatband to the felt. Though I have been contemplating gluing a sweatband inside another sweatband.

 

[tonyb]

I'm scratching my head. The sweatbands are secured to the bodies with glue? In such a way that the sweatbands can't be turned out for access to their inside surfaces (or is that backside?) and what's under them? I've taken apart quite a few hats -- mostly older, some newer -- and I've yet to see a glued-in sweatband. I've heard of people using glue to reattach a sweatband that was coming loose, but I've yet to come across such a repair, and I'd be reluctant to do it that way.

 

[bolthead]

I'm scratching my head. The sweatbands are secured to the bodies with glue? In such a way that the sweatbands can't be turned out for access to their inside surfaces (or is that backside?) and what's under them? I've taken apart quite a few hats -- mostly older, some newer -- and I've yet to see a glued-in sweatband. I've heard of people using glue to reattach a sweatband that was coming loose, but I've yet to come across such a repair, and I'd be reluctant to do it that way.

Tony, it's just the seam part of the sweat, behind the stitching itself where the glue was. You can still fold the whole thing inside out.

 

[tonyb]

So that glue is (or was) flexible? If it weren't, it would break and come loose, I'd think.

I'm still wondering what glue would do that stitching wouldn't. Yeah, stitching fails, eventually. But so does glue.

 

[tonyb]

Moisture barriers were incorporated into sweatbands way back when. I've seen them made of an almost transparent, oilskin-like material. They were attached to the sweatband, not the hat body.

 

[Orvil Newton]

I used silicone adhesive to repair the sweatband on my new, vintage (?), Resistol Dalworth. The band had torn almost half way around the hat on one side at the perforations from the stitching. The band is folded about a half inch at the seam so I just used a Q tip to put a thin bead of glue in the fold, being careful not to get any on the felt. It seems to be working.

 

[tonyb]

So it sounds like your Resistol has a reeded sweatband, Orvil. I'm assuming that that folded-over half inch you refer to is the reed tape, and that you put that bead of adhesive between it and the leather.

 

[Orvil Newton]

So it sounds like your Resistol has a reeded sweatband, Orvil. I'm assuming that that folded-over half inch you refer to is the reed tape, and that you put that bead of adhesive between it and the leather.

Well tonyb, I'm new at this and I'm not familiar with the terminology. This is my first really good felt hat. On closer examination, there does seem to be a smooth leather tape on the inside of the fold. I don't want to handle it or fold it down too much because it seems rather fragile and I don't want to tear the sweat loose on the other side. It looks brand new but the sweat band, or the stitching, must be dried out or deteriorated in some way.

I'm getting a real education here.

 

[tonyb]

Did these cover the stitch holes? The problem is that the holes suck up the moisture via capillary action like a straw, with the thread acting as a moisture wick.

Just looked through a box of maybe-I'll-use-it-again-someday stuff and came across one more or less intact sweatband with that moisture barrier. (I've tossed out several others as they were just beyond salvation.) This one came out of a Western hat I bought new nearly 30 years ago, so it isn't all that "vintage." But yeah, the oilskin-like material is stitched in, between the leather and the plastic-coated reed tape material, with the same stitching that attaches the reed tape to the leather.

If the sweatband is of the reeded variety, and is well-made and properly installed, I'd think it would go quite a ways toward preventing that wicking action. I'd imagine that the thread that is likelier to pose this problem is the thread you don't see unless you lift the ribbon or turn out the sweatband --- you know, the stitching holding the reed tape to the body, and not the thread securing the leather to the reed tape (and the additional moisture barrier, should it have one). In the latter case, the thread is a light gauge and it passes through one layer of leather and two of that plastic-coated fabric the reed tape is made of. The sweat itself would cause enough swelling of those materials to seal the holes, I'd think. And if the sweatband is properly installed, it fits in such a way that it bells inward, so that it doesn't rest directly against the felt, so a person would have to work up quite the sweat (yes, a person just might do that) before the moisture ever reached the thread holding the reed tape to the hat body.

I'm not suggesting that some sort of modern adhesive wouldn't also serve the purpose. But it would have to remain flexible indefinitely. It makes sense that the old-fashioned oilskin-like material would serve the same purpose if it were folded over a quarter of an inch or so, so that the stitch holes would be covered.

 

[barrowjh]

About a year ago I contacted a retail hat store in Memphis about getting a new sweatband sewn into one of my hats. They gave me a price, which I have forgotten exactly, but it was reasonable, say $15 - $20, but said that they glue them in, they do not sew them in. I sent my hat to Graham Thompson (Optimo) in Chicago after that phone call for a complete refurbishment, including a new sweat sewn in.

Since then I have noticed that a lot of reeded sweatbands (newer hats, typically) are not really sewn into the felt but are rather tacked in with a stitch here and there. What you see is the stitching of the sweat to the reed, you have to do a bit of dangerous poking and pulling to get a glimpse of how the reed is attached to the felt. In a case where the reed is just tacked here and there, the alternative of using fabriTac instead really does not seem so 'cheap' or 'flaky' a method.

 

[tonyb]

Since then I have noticed that a lot of reeded sweatbands (newer hats, typically) are not really sewn into the felt but are rather tacked in with a stitch here and there. What you see is the stitching of the sweat to the reed, you have to do a bit of dangerous poking and pulling to get a glimpse of how the reed is attached to the felt. In a case where the reed is just tacked here and there, the alternative of using fabriTac instead really does not seem so 'cheap' or 'flaky' a method.

I'm having difficulty picturing this. Just tacked in with a stitch here and there? What keeps the sweatband from pulling away from the body, then? The stitching securing the reed tape to the body can be kinda wide-spaced, a quarter or three-eighths of an inch or so, but I've yet to see one where the stitching did not go clear around the base of the crown, a small fraction of an inch above the band line (aka the brim break).

As to the dangerous poking and pulling ... well, if the sweatband and/or its stitching is reaching the end of its life, yeah, any sort of handling may push it over the edge. But if it is all still in good condition, nothing is lost by folding out the sweatband to reveal the stitching securing the reed tape to the body. On some hats you'll also have to look under one layer of reed tape, as the stitching goes through only one of the two layers. The stitching is also visible by lifting up (yes, gently) the external ribbon band.

 

[tonyb]

Also ...

Believe me, fellas, I'd be tickled if there were an easier way to install a sweatband, provided it would function as well as a sewn-in reeded sweatband and last as long. Sewing in sweatbands by hand is a genuine pain in the rump, I'm here to tell you, and if there's a good substitute for the quite rare Singer machine designed for this purpose, well, I've yet to hear about it. I've tried using my own free-arm machine. Perhaps a more experienced person could make it work, but it has proven nearly disastrous with me at the controls.

I'm filling part of this holiday working on a new hat. I'd prefer spending less time than it will likely take me to put in the sweatband.

 

[barrowjh]

Tonyb, you are most likely correct. The sewn in reeds have wider spacing between stitches the more recently made, but it is very regular and all the way around. The ones I have seen that were just tacked helter-skelter, maybe those hats had been 'rescued from the dead' by another amateur before I bought them.