Sunrise Hat Company felt (nutria) and hatters’ tools

[deadlyhandsome]

Does anyone have natural light photos of the colour samples?

I can try to get some for you tomorrow if no one beats me to it.

 

[Hogdog]

Sorry for the late reply, but I don't get on here very often. Yes I was referencing western hats. I'm also comparing what I ended up making to the 100% beaver I bought a few years back from Texas Hatters. I have been real happy with both and I just don't see a down side to the Nutria yet. Here are a few pictures taken under no special circumstances. Meaning that I didn't actually set up any specific lighting or use a proper photo box like I would normally do for pictures that I was intending to publish. Just a simple plain background and a cell phone camera that sits in the corner of the shop. I'm waiting for the green hat to swing back by for some finish pouncing, as the young lady really wanted it for a particular concert so I'm aware of the attention it needs. The grayish colored hat, was done for Julian Davis who is a touring musician with his band The Situation. He has had the opportunity to visit with several custom hatters in his travels and he has been very positive in his reviews of his nutria felt hat. For me, so far it's been a lot of positive and no negative comments. I realize these are western hats, but as a guy who lives in south texas and wears felt hats daily and year round for years, it escapes me what the fuss is over these felts. They keep out the rain, they don't sag under the weight of snow when I hunt and fish Colorado, and I get tons of compliments from guys that live in working hats. For what it's worth, I had the opportunity to use one of those RA 3D printed blocks and I was really surprised. I definitely would not shy away from them in the future. Hope all you guys have a great day.
John

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Sorry, I forgot all about this. Unfortunately, not all the samples are labeled and there are new colors available not included.

If I like how the hats I’m having made turn out, I can see ordering a rain cloud and a cobalt at some point.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Sorry for the late reply, but I don't get on here very often. Yes I was referencing western hats. I'm also comparing what I ended up making to the 100% beaver I bought a few years back from Texas Hatters. I have been real happy with both and I just don't see a down side to the Nutria yet. Here are a few pictures taken under no special circumstances. Meaning that I didn't actually set up any specific lighting or use a proper photo box like I would normally do for pictures that I was intending to publish. Just a simple plain background and a cell phone camera that sits in the corner of the shop. I'm waiting for the green hat to swing back by for some finish pouncing, as the young lady really wanted it for a particular concert so I'm aware of the attention it needs. The grayish colored hat, was done for Julian Davis who is a touring musician with his band The Situation. He has had the opportunity to visit with several custom hatters in his travels and he has been very positive in his reviews of his nutria felt hat. For me, so far it's been a lot of positive and no negative comments. I realize these are western hats, but as a guy who lives in south texas and wears felt hats daily and year round for years, it escapes me what the fuss is over these felts. They keep out the rain, they don't sag under the weight of snow when I hunt and fish Colorado, and I get tons of compliments from guys that live in working hats. For what it's worth, I had the opportunity to use one of those RA 3D printed blocks and I was really surprised. I definitely would not shy away from them in the future. Hope all you guys have a great day.
John
View attachment 217035 View attachment 217036 View attachment 217038

John, the hats look very nice. I’m sure if your looking for a felt to make a stiff western they are an excellent way to go.

I’m also looking for a western type felt, but I’m wanting something more akin to the felt used in westerns 70+ years ago. Jared @jlee562 posted a video clip of John Wayne in The Searchers where his hat’s brim is blow up against the crown by a breeze and then falls back to its formed position when the wind lets up. That’s the type of western that I’m after. I’d love something close to the western weight Clear Beaver that Stetson used in the 1950s and earlier. My two Sunrise felts are much too stiff for the kind of western I’m desiring. It’s not that I don’t like these new nutria felts, they just aren’t what I had hoped they would be. The no longer available nutria felt from Australia was much closer to my ideal. I’m confident that my felts will make nice hats, even if they are much stiffer than I’d prefer.

Your hats look great, and I’m sure your customers are more than pleased (I would be). Thanks for sharing.

Brent

 

[J Williams]

Sorry, I forgot all about this. Unfortunately, not all the samples are labeled and there are new colors available not included.

If I like how the hats I’m having made turn out, I can see ordering a rain cloud and a cobalt at some point.

View attachment 217071

Thanks Brent, The lighter unlabelled colour I’m assuming might be Almond?

Have you had any feedback from Rick on these vs Winchester beaver?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thanks Brent, The lighter unlabelled colour I’m assuming might be Almond?

Have you had any feedback from Rick on these vs Winchester beaver?

It wasn’t the felt that Rick had hoped for either. It’s dense and looks like it will make a nice hat, but it wasn’t the equivalent to vintage felt we were hoping for. Rick was going to aggressively pounce it and see if by thinning it out it might get closer to what we are after. I haven’t heard back since Rick shared how initial impressions. Maybe we can ask him @humanshoes to expound. It might be that it’s still in queue waiting for my turn to come around.

 

[T Jones]

John, the hats look very nice. I’m sure if your looking for a felt to make a stiff western they are an excellent way to go.

I’m also looking for a western type felt, but I’m wanting something more akin to the felt used in westerns 70+ years ago. Jared @jlee562 posted a video clip of John Wayne in The Searchers where his hat’s brim is blow up against the crown by a breeze and then falls back to its formed position when the wind lets up. That’s the type of western that I’m after. I’d love something close to the western weight Clear Beaver that Stetson used in the 1950s and earlier. My two Sunrise felts are much too stiff for the kind of western I’m desiring. It’s not that I don’t like these new nutria felts, they just aren’t what I had hoped they would be. The no longer available nutria felt from Australia was much closer to my ideal. I’m confident that my felts will make nice hats, even if they are much stiffer than I’d prefer.

Your hats look great, and I’m sure your customers are more than pleased (I would be). Thanks for sharing.

Brent

John Wayne's hat did the same thing in the 1939 movie, 'Stagecoach' . It'd be nice to have a less stiff Western like that. Felting quality in the U.S. is a long gone art.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

From Sunrise today:

“We regret to share the news that the batch of Coypu (nutria)Hat Bodies scheduled to be released in mid-April will be delayed due to COVID-19. We will send another update as soon as we have clarity about when you can expect their release.”

 

[LuvMyMan]

John Wayne's hat did the same thing in the 1939 movie, 'Stagecoach' . It'd be nice to have a less stiff Western like that. Felting quality in the U.S. is a long gone art.

One of the hats that AlleyKaT (Tim) made for Daniel was a Western Dress weight felt, (actually a few of them were) but one Tim spent a lot of time luring and pouncing and eventually the end results were a softer more movable brim that would sort of bounce back into it's shape without being too floppy. It just might be that the amount of time some hatters are willing to put into a felt, is what really makes a difference maybe even more than the felt itself when starting a new hat build. It is also hard to have any modern felt have that baby butt smooth as cream feel (hand) as we have in some vintage hats. Some folks here know exactly what I mean about that, a vintage with a felt that feels so smooth and soft like butter, no steam needed to bash any way you want. After handling just one vintage like that, it is easy to be spoiled and want to find another just like it. That hat bug just drives the hell out of ya! LOL!

 

[T Jones]

One of the hats that AlleyKaT (Tim) made for Daniel was a Western Dress weight felt, (actually a few of them were) but one Tim spent a lot of time luring and pouncing and eventually the end results were a softer more movable brim that would sort of bounce back into it's shape without being too floppy. It just might be that the amount of time some hatters are willing to put into a felt, is what really makes a difference maybe even more than the felt itself when starting a new hat build. It is also hard to have any modern felt have that baby butt smooth as cream feel (hand) as we have in some vintage hats. Some folks here know exactly what I mean about that, a vintage with a felt that feels so smooth and soft like butter, no steam needed to bash any way you want. After handling just one vintage like that, it is easy to be spoiled and want to find another just like it. That hat bug just drives the hell out of ya! LOL!

I have a Stetson Imperial in a suede finish which has that nice buttery feel, as well as couple of Knoxes and Resistols that I have. Hands down, vintage hats are far superior to any modern felts. Felting is definitely a lost art that's given way to cheap mass production.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I have a Stetson Imperial in a suede finish which has that nice buttery feel, as well as couple of Knoxes and Resistols that I have. Hands down, vintage hats are far superior to any modern felts. Felting is definitely a lost art that's given way to cheap mass production.

I agree on the whole. However, the recent Stetson pure beaver Excellent grade felt shows that great felt is still possible. Honestly, the felt on my Stetson phantom grey New York LE is as nice as my 1940s Cavanagh Twenty!

 

[T Jones]

I agree on the whole. However, the recent Stetson pure beaver Excellent grade felt shows that great felt is still possible. Honestly, the felt on my Stetson phantom grey New York LE is as nice as my 1940s Cavanagh Twenty!

I haven't had the pleasure of handling one of those to compare, but it would sure be nice to see that vintage felt quality make a return. Sounds promising.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I haven't had the pleasure of handling one of those to compare, but it would sure be nice to see that vintage felt quality make a return. Sounds promising.

It is great felt...so of course Stetson discontinued it. No open crown Excellent hats in the current catalog.

The current Royal De Luxe Premier (I believe currently only available as a Stratoliner) is quite nice, but thicker and less dense than the Excellent grade hats. Nice winter weight felt, not not on the same league as the better vintage offerings.

 

[T Jones]

It is great felt...so of course Stetson discontinued it. No open crown Excellent hats in the current catalog.

The current Royal De Luxe Premier (I believe currently only available as a Stratoliner) is quite nice, but thicker and less dense than the Excellent grade hats. Nice winter weight felt, not not on the same league as the better vintage offerings.

It is great felt...so of course Stetson discontinued it. No open crown Excellent hats in the current catalog.

The current Royal De Luxe Premier (I believe currently only available as a Stratoliner) is quite nice, but thicker and less dense than the Excellent grade hats. Nice winter weight felt, not not on the same league as the better vintage offerings.

Just when you think they're onto something good they discontinue it.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

One of the hats that AlleyKaT (Tim) made for Daniel was a Western Dress weight felt, (actually a few of them were) but one Tim spent a lot of time luring and pouncing and eventually the end results were a softer more movable brim that would sort of bounce back into it's shape without being too floppy. It just might be that the amount of time some hatters are willing to put into a felt, is what really makes a difference maybe even more than the felt itself when starting a new hat build. It is also hard to have any modern felt have that baby butt smooth as cream feel (hand) as we have in some vintage hats. Some folks here know exactly what I mean about that, a vintage with a felt that feels so smooth and soft like butter, no steam needed to bash any way you want. After handling just one vintage like that, it is easy to be spoiled and want to find another just like it. That hat bug just drives the hell out of ya! LOL!

It’s relatively easy for a good hatter to pounce a hat to a fine smooth finish. A velvety even finish just takes time and skill. However, no amount of pouncing can change the basic nature of the felt as it was made. If you pounce too deeply you get into the shellac core and the hat is ruined. I’ve had a couple of hatters have to start over after pouncing a bit too much trying to thin out the felt to get it more like vintage. Winchester’s felt (100% beaver) just can’t be made into the same quality as vintage felt.

This Sunrise nutria is dense, but it’s also fairly stiff. My hope is that with some careful thinning it can split the difference between the vintage felt I really want and the far too stiff/firm current Winchester western felt. I can’t see it ever making a dress weight hat no matter what’s done with it. I have two of them on order: my VS is one the block, and if the craziness of the world hasn’t thrown a wrench into the works my Phoenix should be done next month.

 

[belfastboy]

It’s relatively easy for a good hatter to pounce a hat to a fine smooth finish. A velvety even finish just takes time and skill. However, no amount of pouncing can change the basic nature of the felt as it was made. If you pounce too deeply you get into the shellac core and the hat is ruined. I’ve had a couple of hatters have to start over after pouncing a bit too much trying to thin out the felt to get it more like vintage. Winchester’s felt (100% beaver) just can’t be made into the same quality as vintage felt.

This Sunrise nutria is dense, but it’s also fairly stiff. My hope is that with some careful thinning it can split the difference between the vintage felt I really want and the far too stiff/firm current Winchester western felt. I can’t see it ever making a dress weight hat no matter what’s done with it. I have two of them on order: my VS is one the block, and if the craziness of the world hasn’t thrown a wrench into the works my Phoenix should be done next month.

I bought 2 of Art's nutria felts. He did not say where he sourced them even after I asked specifically. I have yet to work with them but they have a wonderful hand to them that to me is superior to Winchester's beaver felts. It is about the same weight as Winchester, same density but does not have the cardboard feel of the unworked Winchester beaver. It is softer than the Tonak rabbit as well. I am looking forward to working with it but not sure what I want out of it just yet. I can get just under 6" on the open crown and that leaves me with just under 3" on the brim.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I bought 2 of Art's nutria felts. He did not say where he sourced them even after I asked specifically. I have yet to work with them but they have a wonderful hand to them that to me is superior to Winchester's beaver felts. It is about the same weight as Winchester, same density but does not have the cardboard feel of the unworked Winchester beaver. It is softer than the Tonak rabbit as well. I am looking forward to working with it but not sure what I want out of it just yet. I can get just under 6" on the open crown and that leaves me with just under 3" on the brim.

It was interesting that David Gibson who took over VS was completely unfamiliar with any sources for nutria. My hat body was the first modem nutria David saw.

 

[belfastboy]

I bought 2 of Art's nutria felts. He did not say where he sourced them even after I asked specifically. I have yet to work with them but they have a wonderful hand to them that to me is superior to Winchester's beaver felts. It is about the same weight as Winchester, same density but does not have the cardboard feel of the unworked Winchester beaver. It is softer than the Tonak rabbit as well. I am looking forward to working with it but not sure what I want out of it just yet. I can get just under 6" on the open crown and that leaves me with just under 3" on the brim.

I am thinking they may be the discontinued 180gr weight

 

[belfastboy]

It was interesting that David Gibson who took over VS was completely unfamiliar with any sources for nutria. My hat body was the first modem nutria David saw.

David never did send me the picture of his Fepsa beaver blue/green felt...guess he forgot.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

David never did send me the picture of his Fepsa beaver blue/green felt...guess he forgot.

I think David was confused and sent them to me. I was talking to him about them and he sent photos, but I never asked for photos.