Stroller - Morning Dress only?

[Two Types]

Interesting to read the "dress for business part". The character of Captain Peacock was intended to be hopelessly, stuffily, out of date, of course.

Good old Captain Peacock! In one episode he shows the staff the correct way to fold a pocket handkerchief. One might expect him to create a very formal fold (as most formal forums seem to suggest is the correct manner) howeverhe simply holds it by the centre, letting it hang, pulls it through his hands, and stuffs it into his pocket. Very casual and shows off lots of the pattern. Ever since seeing that, I have followed his method.

 

[Oldsarge]

That's called the 'Puff" and it was allegedly invented by Fred Astaire, if my memory is correct.

 

[Edward]

Interesting to read the "dress for business part". The character of Captain Peacock was intended to be hopelessly, stuffily, out of date, of course.

Yes, I always read him as someone probably coming towards the end of his career in retail by the early Seventies, which would put him in all likelihood as having started work by at least the early-mid Thirties and thus following the sort of dress code that would have been the norm back then. The magic of the interwebs, however, suggests that he was, in 1975, an employee of Grace Brothers of some twenty years' standing; his prior history is unclear (in particular, his military record seems in dispute: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Peacock ). He is rather pretentious anyhow, and so is likely to be the sort to cling to an outmoded notion of "proper" dress longer. It would be interesting to see how those on the retail end of the Row or Jermyn Street would have dressed back then. Not hard to imagine a pretentious, provincial department store line manager like Peacock regarding those as his peers. The junior employees in his department, of course, as was the norm by this period are wearing contemporary fashion styles, no doubt products actually available in the Grace Brothers menswear department...

Good old Captain Peacock! In one episode he shows the staff the correct way to fold a pocket handkerchief. One might expect him to create a very formal fold (as most formal forums seem to suggest is the correct manner) howeverhe simply holds it by the centre, letting it hang, pulls it through his hands, and stuffs it into his pocket. Very casual and shows off lots of the pattern. Ever since seeing that, I have followed his method.

It's a great approach. Once in a while for a particular formal occasion I might like a more formal fold, but this is what I do as a norm - especially with silks. There's also a certain rakish appeal to having such a flamboyantly unruly detail to an otherwise immaculate outfit.

 

[filfoster]

I suppose that all depends on how much effort you want to go through. Despite the sartorial prejudice against them, every man needs a black suit. People die and you need to go to funerals. People get married and don't want a morning dress wedding so you are left with the somber, 'marrying and burying' suit. You may as well get one and use the coat from it as your stroller jacket. If you get it MTM you can specify the desired peaked lapels. Heck, you could even get a DB suit and it would come that way OTR. Then you wouldn't need the vest, thought there would be nothing wrong with wearing one anyway.

I'd go with wool unless Easter morning in your part of the world is normally hot and muggy. Linen does wrinkle so.

And I'd put BB or Nordstrom's over JAB, personally.

The path of least resistance and some reasonable cost, would seem to have Magnoli gin one up with the details like the peaked lapels, no vents, surgeon cuffs, etc. He could make two pairs of trousers, one matching, perhaps cuffed, for the marry/bury suit and the hickory-striped ones for the stroller, 'roll your own' on the vest.

 

[Oldsarge]

You could actually have a variety of vests. Black or grey for the most formal events, buff for one a bit less high toned and some cheerful seasonal colors. All this presupposes that you actually would wear one more than a day or two a year, of course.

 

[Edward]

The path of least resistance and some reasonable cost, would seem to have Magnoli gin one up with the details like the peaked lapels, no vents, surgeon cuffs, etc. He could make two pairs of trousers, one matching, perhaps cuffed, for the marry/bury suit and the hickory-striped ones for the stroller, 'roll your own' on the vest.

Interesting idea. I'd be tempted to give this RL on eBay a whirl if it was my size: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/40-R-Ralp...SA_MC_Vests&hash=item2eb20e18da#ht_1059wt_952

I do have an original 20s or thirties (I think) stroller that is a notch lapel etc - came with a waistcoat and striped trews. More banker's uniform than occasion wear back in the day, I'm sure, but I'd happily wear it now in the context of the latter. I lie the stroller look myself, though honestly the only persons I can ever think of having seen dress that way (outside of freemasons) in the UK that I personally have actually seen in the last twenty years are undertakers.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The character of Captain Peacock was intended to be hopelessly, stuffily, out of date, of course.

I'm not sure about that assertion, Baron. Captain Peacock was a department store shopwalker (known as a "floorwalker" in the U.S.), and he was wearing a shopwalker's "uniform": striped trousers and a black stroller with a red carnation. Shopwalkers wore this getup so that they could be easily identified by customers.


For those who might not know, a SHOPWALKER is an employee of a retail store who supervises sales personnel and helps with customer problems. Shopwalkers walk continuously around the store, from floor to floor, all day long.


(The last time I saw a department store floorwalker in the United States was in New York City in 1984 ... and yes, he was wearing a red-carnation'd stroller with striped trousers. As far as I know, floorwalkers still exist, but I haven't seen any in this century.)

 

[avedwards]

I do have an original 20s or thirties (I think) stroller that is a notch lapel etc - came with a waistcoat and striped trews. More banker's uniform than occasion wear back in the day, I'm sure, but I'd happily wear it now in the context of the latter. I lie the stroller look myself, though honestly the only persons I can ever think of having seen dress that way (outside of freemasons) in the UK that I personally have actually seen in the last twenty years are undertakers.

Strollers always seem to have been work wear rather than occasion wear though, unlike it's evening equivalent.

I think more traditional barristers still wear them these days, although even that's becoming rarer as most barristers I've seen wear black chalk stripe suits.

 

[Nick D]

Strollers always seem to have been work wear rather than occasion wear though, unlike it's evening equivalent.

Stroller at a cocktail party

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.
A department store floorwalker after work.

 

[avedwards]

Stroller at a cocktail party

I stand corrected.

A department store floorwalker after work.

Or maybe not.

It could also be a butler who isn't doing his job properly. Even if it is a guest of higher social standing than a department store floorworker, it could be that he's come from work.

 

[Oldsarge]

Maybe he's a banker . . .

 

[Cobden]

Or it's from an advert that is supposed to showcase a company's range, rather then be an accurate representation of correct attire for an evening get together

 

[Edward]

Strollers always seem to have been work wear rather than occasion wear though, unlike it's evening equivalent.

Yes. Over here, unlike the US, the stroller seems to have died the death as it fell out of fashion as workwear. Any social purpose it served as semi-formal daywear seems to have been usurped by the lounge suit at one end and full formal daywear at the other. I'd love to wear a stroller as a wedding guest, but you'd have to be damned careful which wedding it was to not be taken for trying to look like part of the wedding party (or, indeed, to outdress them).

I think more traditional barristers still wear them these days, although even that's becoming rarer as most barristers I've seen wear black chalk stripe suits.

Pretty much. If ever (as they keep threatening to do) they go the way of the Americans and abolish wigs and gowns, that'll kill the stroller in this context stone dead, I suspect.

 

[filfoster]

Interesting idea. I'd be tempted to give this RL on eBay a whirl if it was my size: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/40-R-Ralp...SA_MC_Vests&hash=item2eb20e18da#ht_1059wt_952

I do have an original 20s or thirties (I think) stroller that is a notch lapel etc - came with a waistcoat and striped trews. More banker's uniform than occasion wear back in the day, I'm sure, but I'd happily wear it now in the context of the latter. I lie the stroller look myself, though honestly the only persons I can ever think of having seen dress that way (outside of freemasons) in the UK that I personally have actually seen in the last twenty years are undertakers.

You mention something unique to the UK that I have read on other threads/forums, about this now being 'Masonic' garb. That is interesting.
I also thought of cocktail attire but most of the few I ever attend are evening affairs where morning or day attire might be noticed. Well, at least by Loungers, eh?

 

[Oldsarge]

Agreed, unless you attend a three martini lunch or something of that sort.

 

[avedwards]

Pretty much. If ever (as they keep threatening to do) they go the way of the Americans and abolish wigs and gowns, that'll kill the stroller in this context stone dead, I suspect.

Wigs are already dying out as they're only worn in criminal courts (as is the stroller), but even that might die out eventually. However, if current dress codes stay as they are in criminal courts the stroller might live on, as court etiquette is that the waist must be covered by either a DB suit or a waistcoat.

The way to save wigs (and thereby the stroller) would be for the judges of the Supreme Court to start wearing them (which neither they nor the Law Lords before them ever wore) but I doubt that would happen.

 

[Edward]

You mention something unique to the UK that I have read on other threads/forums, about this now being 'Masonic' garb. That is interesting.
I also thought of cocktail attire but most of the few I ever attend are evening affairs where morning or day attire might be noticed. Well, at least by Loungers, eh?

I can't claim any expertise on the matter - I've never had any personal contact with Freemasonry, nor has it been something I've sought out. That said, there's a large and apparently very significant Freemasons building of some sort here in Bloomsbury, five minutes from my office and between here and Covent Garden. I pass it frequently, and there are always a lot of them around, always (at least, obviously, the ones I notice) dressed that way. Appears to be an effective uniform for their ceremonies?

Wigs are already dying out as they're only worn in criminal courts (as is the stroller), but even that might die out eventually. However, if current dress codes stay as they are in criminal courts the stroller might live on, as court etiquette is that the waist must be covered by either a DB suit or a waistcoat.

Yeah, they dropped it in Civil court some years back, can't remember exactly when but I recall it happening, I think. There have been rumblings about following suit in most criminal courts forever, thoygh it hasn't yet happened.

The way to save wigs (and thereby the stroller) would be for the judges of the Supreme Court to start wearing them (which neither they nor the Law Lords before them ever wore) but I doubt that would happen.

Agreed. Once they change these things, they don't go backwards. I'm sure it'll all disappear eventually, no doubt with the US being seen as a model to answer arguments such as that they give the court a sense of authority and so on (an argument also partially undermined already by their non-use in the highest court in the land). The cost I'm sure will also be brought into it. I've just invested part of my own personal allowance in work in a set of academic robes, which will, over time, save the Department significant money over hiring, especially as I now attend three graduation ceremonies a year. The black gown itself was something like GBP200. The last time I heard a price put on the basic horsehair barrister's wig, it was GBP350..... and that was in 1995. Dread to think what they are now. In a way I think it'll be sad to see that tradition pass, but then all things have their time and place, I suppose, and while I'm not one for change for its own sake, neither am I necessarily one for sticking to what we do "just because".

 

[Two Types]

I had a good find this afternoon: A 1930s 'stroller jacket' (one button, peaked lapel) by an English company named 'White Rose'. In moderate condition (just a couple of moth holes), for the splendid price of £12. I'll post photos soon.

 

[AntonAAK]

That is a bargain. Where did you find that? I've been looking for one for ages.