Stitching on Reeded Sweat

[jimmy the lid]

I posed this question on one of johnnyphi's auctions, but thought it might be useful to post here, as well. Several of johnnyphi's lids that, I imagine, date from around the early 40's have stitching around the reeded part of the sweat:

I don't recall ever seeing this before. Does anyone know anything about this kind of stitching -- was it primarily for aesthetic purposes? Is it a technique that dates to a particular time frame, so as to be helpful in dating a lid?


Cheers,
JtL

 

[johnnyphi]

Stetsons Stopped Supplying Hirsch's in late 1940's

Jimmy,

To answer your question originally posted on the auction, "Mr. C", the owner of Hirsch's Men's Store, told me that Stetson stopped supplying his store in the mid- to late-1940's. So, my Stetsons cannot be younger than 1947 or 1948. Of course, they could be older because Hirsch's was in business for 85 years. Some of these hats could easily date back to the early 1940's or even the mid-1930's.

Good question about the stitching. I'll look at the high-res versions of my photos tonight to see if I can post some close-up examples of the stitching you described.

PS - Thanks for moving this discussion to the Hats Forum. I'd prefer to discuss historical details of the hats in the hat forum, so we don't have any confusion with active bidding. We can post a link back to this discussion, for folks who are interested.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Johnnyphi, this was pointed out to me and the best I can tell this is not a reeded sweat, can you tell me if this is correct? JTL this was done sometimes by Stetson and others I believe mostly for asthetics.

 

[johnnyphi]

I can't tell...

But, here's a close-up of the stitching...

Johnnyphi, this was pointed out to me and the best I can tell this is not a reeded sweat, can you tell me if this is correct? JTL this was done sometimes by Stetson and others I believe mostly for asthetics.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Many thanks, johnnyphi. What say you, Art?

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Art Fawcett]

My first instinct was right JTl, it's a non reeded sweat with reed tape sewn on but no reed, then stitched through that. Makes for a different look and I don't know of any practical reason so I'll blame it on asthetics.
Thanks for the pic Johhny

 

[jimmy the lid]

Many thanks, Art. From a distance, it appeared that there was a reeded sweat with stitching that went around the reed. The close-up photo really helps to show what's going on (thanks, johnnyphi).

Art -- do you have a sense of whether or not this technique is attributable to a particular period of time? For example, did it bridge the gap between a sweat sewn directly to the hat and the more familiar reeded sweat approach?

Cheers,
JtL

 

[johnnyphi]

Wow... What does that mean?

What is reed tape?

Here's another example of the same style stitching...

My first instinct was right JTl, it's a non reeded sweat with reed tape sewn on but no reed, then stitched through that. Makes for a different look and I don't know of any practical reason so I'll blame it on asthetics.
Thanks for the pic Johhny

 

[Art Fawcett]

JTL, I hesitate to put any firm time period on the practice for a number of reasons, the first of which is that it could be any time after the 30's. Now that I've said that, a '30s example will show up.
With competition what it was this was most likely another small way to distinguish a brand without spending alot of time or money doing so. It's always been true that the "devil is in the details" and a detail like this could help the overall image of the hat. My sense is that this is early 40's so you guys are right on track with the dating.

 

[BobC]

Thank you JtL, johnnyphi and Art for helping to answer my question about the age of this hat. I very much appreciate the input from those of you who are much more knowledgeable than me.

 

[Chinaski]

I'm dredging this thread up from the dead because it's interesting, and also to ask a stupid question (that's more than likely already answered elsewhere on the Lounge!)

What is the purpose of a reeded sweat? Why are some reeded and others unreeded? What are the advantages/disadvantages of each? Inquiring minds...

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

What is the purpose of a reeded sweat? Why are some reeded and others unreeded? What are the advantages/disadvantages of each? Inquiring minds...

This explanation falls outside of the unusual examples shown earlier in this thread.

The reed cloth with a reed inside could be sewn to the hat's felt with just a few tack stitches around the inside of the crown. The sweatband could be sewn to the reed cloth with the many stitches you are used to seeing. (This is not necessarily the order in which the installation occurred.) Equals less puncturing of the felt. Also, easier removal and replacement during refurbishment.

By doing this, the sweatband arrangement is somewhat suspended inside the crown of the hat. It creates some expansion and contraction wiggle room for the leather. Also, the reed 'bells' the shape of the sweatband out at the brim break which is intended to make it more comfortable (keeps edges and stitch rows away from the forehead, etc.).

 

[Chinaski]

Yeah, Gene, I realize they are talking about something very specifically different than my question in this thread. Reed tape, as Art said, sewn to the felt and then the sweat sewn over that.

You mention the "reed cloth with the reed inside." What exactly is the reed inside? Just asking - I'm a former saxophone player, and I know what a reed is in that respect! I would guess on a reeded sweat you see that bead protruding under the sweat - a layer between the felt and the sweatband, as opposed to the reed tape sewn to the felt and then the sweatband sewn to the felt as Art describes.

So what is the purpose of the reed cloth with the reed inside? Why did they make reeded and unreeded sweats? Just trying to understand the concept...

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

The reeds began as, well, reeds. Real organic plant material. Over time, most were metal and some now are monofilament.

The reed concept was an advancement in hat trimming.

As far as the purpose, re-read where I explained that.

 

[jonbuilder]

Is this a reeded sweat?

I hoping one of you more experience hat aficionado might share some insight with the sweat on my Stetson 7X. Some of the stitching attaching the sweat to the hat bobby has come loose. I cannot see where I can re sew through any cloth band to re attaché the sweat. I have included pictures of the sweat. Is this a reeded sweat and if not can the sweat be re stitched to the hat?

fftopic: Any ideas of the age would also be appreciated

 

[Chinaski]

Jonbuilder, I'll give it a bump to see if someone answers your question. If I have it figured correctly, yours has a reeded sweat - I'm guessing that bead is the reed. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. As to whether or not it can be repaired, I don't know.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Yes, that 'bead' is a sleeve which contains the actual reed (or metal wire or monofilament). It looks like piping but is a channel for the reed material.

Dangit, I can't remember the term for that strip of material which holds the reed and has a margin which actually gets tack stitched to the hat. Anyone with a better memory out there?....

-----

As far as repairing what jonbuilder is showing, it's difficult to be sure of what I'm seeing but it's probably needle and thread time. If there is a split in some of the material that could be structurally troublesome even once the tack stitches are replaced which hold the (whatchacallit) to the felt. When it's simply a matter of reattaching the material it's tricky enough and you have to work at an angle so that the stitches come out of the hat crown just above the brim break and near the bottom - and behind - the outside ribbon.
If the material is still sewn but now torn, I'm not sure what the solution is.

 

[Dinerman]

That's a reeded sweat. Should be a matter of taking the ribbon off, restitching the reed tape to the body of the hat, and then putting the ribbon back on to cover the stitches.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Dangit, I can't remember the term for that strip of material which holds the reed and has a margin which actually gets tack stitched to the hat. Anyone with a better memory out there?....

It's called, variously, reed tape or reed cloth.

Brad

 

[ScottF]

It's called, variously, reed tape or reed cloth.

Brad

Brad, can you buy it?