Stetson Vita-felt

[Marc Chevalier]

Ah ... you that that the guy in the green fedora is me! Nope. That's my friend, Nathan Marsak.


Nathan has one of the best collections of vintage menswear that I've ever seen. Some photos of it are here:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=11577

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[Marc Chevalier]

Hmmm. That t-shirt looks a lot more like a very threadbare button-front shirt.

Here is my shirt: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...50021778079&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWN:IT&rd=1


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[Tony in Tarzana]

Hi Tony!

If you can get the crown pix from above, it is always an interesting detail to see the execution of design.

Going OK, soon to be in the big search for a job soon.

John

Well, good luck. They say the economy's improving.

Here are some more shots, click on 'em for the big picture.

 

[MKL]

I looked in the old threads to get an answer for this but did not come up with definite answer. Just what does vita-felt mean? Someone "thought" it meant a mixture. I have a Stetson Deluxe with that name on the lining and the band. Any solid ideas?

Thanks.

 

[Lefty]

Here's Stetson's 1945 ad, telling you that it's not just their lightweight felt, it's the world's finest lightweight felt. Take that, other-but-lame-light-weights.

 

[Andykev]

This is what Vita-Felt means.

I looked in the old threads to get an answer for this but did not come up with definite answer. Just what does vita-felt mean? Someone "thought" it meant a mixture. I have a Stetson Deluxe with that name on the lining and the band. Any solid ideas?

Thanks.

NO! It referred to live beavers, pen fed with vitamins and other natural foods which enhanced the quality of their fur. They were then "shaved" and not killed for the pelt.... Those hats have the natural, smooth felt finish due to the high quality of fur and natural animal oils that remained in the felting process.

It was a short lived experiment, due to the high cost and labor involved. The hat companies were trying to replace the dwindling supply of Nutria fur which was superior to beaver.

 

[Nash Buckingham]

wow! That must have been an interesting job getting those fellow to stand still to be shorn/shaved.

I'd like to see some pictures of that operation.

An interesting concept - I wonder how quickly the fur would grow back.

 

[Andykev]

Exactly!

An interesting concept - I wonder how quickly the fur would grow back.

That was another reason the program failed. The Beaver fur took a full year to grow after being shaved. In essence, you paid to feed and house a beaver for just one yearly shearing. The calculated that the cost break point required them to have a huge number of caged beavers to make it profitable. It wasn't.

 

[retro50]

The hat companies were trying to replace the dwindling supply of Nutria fur which was superior to beaver.

Please define "Nutria fur". Many thanks.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Nutria are those giant RATS no? Hard to believe they were in short supply at one time. There are places around the globe now where it's always open season since they are so rampant.

Or am I totally getting this wrong?...

 

[Andykev]

Nutria is a WONDRFUL felt

Nutria is a high quality fur derived from a small rodent like creature..the Nutria.

"Nutria are valued furbearers. Characterized by dense grayish underfur and long glossy guard hairs, wild nutria vary in color from dark brown to yellowish brown. Nutria is similar to beaver, it is often sheared for a sporty, more lightweight feel. Underfur is very soft and plush. A popular fur for linings and trims. It is frequently dyed in a variety of colors"

Some of the finest STETSON hats, made for Royalty, retired employees of stature, and Presidents....were made of NUTRIA felt.

http://www.nutria.com/site.php

 

[J. M. Stovall]

Nutria are those giant RATS no? Hard to believe they were in short supply at one time. There are places around the globe now where it's always open season since they are so rampant.

Or am I totally getting this wrong?...

There are plenty of them here on the Texas coast! Maybe I should start a Nutria Ranch.

 

[Lefty]

But the big debate a few years ago was whether beaver or nutria was better, and that was never resolved. Some argued that nutria was no better than beaver, but that it was more prized because it was rare at the time, having to be imported from Argentina. I haven't heard anyone weigh in on that debate since you, Art, and Fedora argued the point.

Nutria is a high quality fur derived from a small rodent like creature..the Nutria.

"Nutria are valued furbearers. Characterized by dense grayish underfur and long glossy guard hairs, wild nutria vary in color from dark brown to yellowish brown. Nutria is similar to beaver, it is often sheared for a sporty, more lightweight feel. Underfur is very soft and plush. A popular fur for linings and trims. It is frequently dyed in a variety of colors"

Some of the finest STETSON hats, made for Royalty, retired employees of stature, and Presidents....were made of NUTRIA felt.

http://www.nutria.com/site.php

 

[HatFan]

Last year I was in Vienna, Austria and stopped at a hat shop on the main drag. It was cold out and I had forgotten my hat at the hotel when I left. I found a stingy brim Stetson that was made of 'Vita-felt'. These were new hats and they had quite a few of them, so Stetson must still be making them.

 

[MKL]

Thanks Andykev and everyone for the info.

 

[Woodfluter]

FYI -

(1) I have a Stetson Vita-Felt with Cavanagh edge, and and it is assuredly not a "lightweight" felt - seems unusually dense as supported by it's weight on a scale. I'm very surprised to hear about any of more recent vintage - I understood they made them for only a limited time after the posted ad, although some might have been made sporadically thereafter into the 1950's - or so someone hereabouts told me.

(2) A big, aquatic rat is a pretty accurate description of Nutria. Similar to a muskrat, but larger and with a round tail. Musrats have a flattened tail - vertically, not horizontally like a beaver's - to help them swim.

Nutria are native to Argentina, and a Mr. McIlheney (of Tabasco sauce fame) kept some in a supposedly secure pen down Louisiana way until floodwaters enabled their escape in 1940. They spread rapidly thereafter. Some of them lived in a pond down below our backyard in Delaware in the 1960's. I shot and killed a snapping turtle that mutilated and killed some of them.

- Bill

 

[AlanC]

^I think I might have sided with the turtle.

Perhaps Stetson should have tried a catch, shave and release program with those beavers.

As for nutria, it is puzzling why the resource of what is otherwise a pest is not used by Winchester or Stetson. It has been reported by some of our bayou Loungers that the state will pay a bounty for nutrias in order to encourage a cap on the population. I know that Art has argued that nutria is coarser--and not as good--as beaver, but with the widespread availability of them surely they would at least be a solid alternative to rabbit or hare.

 

[HatFan]

Stetson is selling 'Vita-Felt' hats in Europe now. It is not clear if it is from the nutria or beaver or something else, but here are a couple of current ads (check out the hat box on the first ad):

http://www.hut-shopping.de/s01.php?...e&ag=1&pp=aa&bnr=70266&letterid=45&partner=28

http://hatshopping.com/Felt__outdoor/Norton_VITA_FELT_by_Stetson.htm

I see that Stetson also registered the Vita-Felt trademark in 2006:

http://www.wipo.int/ipdl/en/madrid/key.jsp?KEY=894272

 

[Lefty]

The first link indicates that the hat is Wollfilz, or wool felt.

At least I'll have that North Carolina feeling if I buy it.

 

[Lefty]

What have we learned?

Aside from Vic's trademark post, as quoted below, do we really know anything about vita-felt after all these years? I've got about 5 different ads for Stetson hats offered in vita-felt but none gives any information about it other than its lightness.

So, is it just lightweight felt? Before vita-felt, there was Air-Lite, so maybe vita-felt is just a rebranding.

What keeps getting me is the word "process". The Playboy I sold and the Royal Deluxe that's on the way to me don't just say "vita-felt", they both say "vita felt process" on the sweat. Again, is this just marketing, or was there a special "process" used to produce this felt?

In one thread, Brad posited the theory that vita-felt may have been a composite felt, as a wartime conservation measure. However, based upon all the accounts that hats made of wool and milk shrink (while the vita-felts I've seen here on on ebay do not seem to have shrunk) and that both materials would have also been necessary for the war effort (3lbs of casein to every 100lbs of milk), I'm not sure about the theory.
edit: As to the milk/casein possibility, Brad's post in the milk thread shows that this process wasn't patented until 1943, while Stetson was marketing vita-felt in late 41, and the Playboy I had certainly didn't smell like milk when it was damp.

Apparently, we also don't know when Stetson stopped using the vita-felt designation, though it seems that it didn't make it into the 50s.

Does anyone have anything to add, or is vita-felt going to remain a mystery for now? [huh]

Stetson first used vita-felt 7-30-1940. Granted a trademark 12-24 1940.

Hat Corporation of America patented a casein fiber hat-making process that could use anywhere from 25% to 95% fur felt (any combination of coney/hare/beaver/muskrat/nutria) and 5% to 75% of the inexpensive casein fibers. They filed in 1940, and were granted the patent in 1943. Stetson may have patented something similar, but I don't remember.

I don't think the hats were terribly successful, but I suppose they helped get the company through the war shortage. The most common customer complaint was that the hats smelled like sour milk when they got wet. I doubt many survive because of this.

Brad