indycop
I'll Lock Up
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Pouncing machine? Got any pics?HATCO said:
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Stetson Pinnacle
- Thread starter Arasen
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indycop said:Pouncing machine? Got any pics?
These machines are quite old. I'm not sure of the exact date, but over 60 easily. We have a machine shop that replaces and repairs the parts to keep them running since the company that makes them went out of business a long time ago.
Mr. Paladin
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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- 3,133
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Great pictures of the machinery, thanks!
Bart, you are right. I am sure its an apples / oranges comparison and, believe me, I am not being contentious or argumentative! You guys know more about hats than me for sure. I just like many of the Stetsons and enjoy the hunt at the Garland Outlet. Careful choice and selection can net some really good deals there...no, wait, thats wrong--don't go there and shop...bad idea...don't need the competition!
Bart, you are right. I am sure its an apples / oranges comparison and, believe me, I am not being contentious or argumentative! You guys know more about hats than me for sure. I just like many of the Stetsons and enjoy the hunt at the Garland Outlet. Careful choice and selection can net some really good deals there...no, wait, thats wrong--don't go there and shop...bad idea...don't need the competition!
handlebar bart
Call Me a Cab
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Mr. Paladin said:Great pictures of the machinery, thanks!
Bart, you are right. I am sure its an apples / oranges comparison and, believe me, I am not being contentious or argumentative! You guys know more about hats than me for sure. I just like many of the Stetsons and enjoy the hunt at the Garland Outlet. Careful choice and selection can net some really good deals there...no, wait, thats wrong--don't go there and shop...bad idea...don't need the competition!
In no way directed toward you Paladin, or anyone else in particular for that matter. I have no beef with production hats as they all have their place or Stetson and others wouldn't produce them. It is just a curiosity how this topic seems to be the one that goes south every time it comes up. Mostly it seems people get labeled as being anti-current production or anti-vintage/custom unfairly and for the wrong reasons. It is just a oddity that sticks out at me. I see a reason for all brimmed hats regardless of origin and though I have my favorite style and lean toward the bolder color options I don't try to find fault with someone elses choice. Despite how these threads always go it seems that holds true for the vast majority on here. Brimmed hats are cool regardless of the heritage of a particular hat. I still have a ton to learn about hats, but I am kinda dialing in what I like on myself. But that is still a work in progress. I really think this forum is a great bunch of people and particularly the guys that frequent the hat section, but I think this is one of a few topics that suffers. Along with Indy hat discussions[huh]
carter
I'll Lock Up
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- Corsicana, TX
Stick a fork in me...
Folks, As discussions go this one has been downright civil. Differences of opinion discussed in this forum usually are. I appreciate the fact that HATCO is defending the Stetson product. We all learn something in the discussion. Others have stated that, in their opinion, there are real as well as perceived differences in quality and value, between production items vs custom items. This need not be limited to Stetson but the original post was regarding the Pinnacle.
Stetson has many fans here as noted above. I am glad to be among them. As some of us have noted, the HATCO Outlet is a great place to shop if you want a Stetson at a very favorable price. Who knows, Mr. P and I may bump into one another there some day.
Mr. Paladin said:Great pictures of the machinery, thanks!
Bart, you are right. I am sure its an apples / oranges comparison and, believe me, I am not being contentious or argumentative! You guys know more about hats than me for sure. I just like many of the Stetsons and enjoy the hunt at the Garland Outlet. Careful choice and selection can net some really good deals there...no, wait, thats wrong--don't go there and shop...bad idea...don't need the competition!
Folks, As discussions go this one has been downright civil. Differences of opinion discussed in this forum usually are. I appreciate the fact that HATCO is defending the Stetson product. We all learn something in the discussion. Others have stated that, in their opinion, there are real as well as perceived differences in quality and value, between production items vs custom items. This need not be limited to Stetson but the original post was regarding the Pinnacle.
Stetson has many fans here as noted above. I am glad to be among them. As some of us have noted, the HATCO Outlet is a great place to shop if you want a Stetson at a very favorable price. Who knows, Mr. P and I may bump into one another there some day.
Mr. Paladin
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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After policing for over 30 years, believe me, I found this to be a very civil discourse. I was just merely acknowledging my place as a "rookie" on this new "force" that I have really enjoyed being allowed to be a part of. I like the politeness, civility, and even cameraderie exhibited by folks here. I like it too much to screw it up being a "mouthy rookie"!
I like hats and as long as I don't have to wear a ball cap , I am happy!
I like hats and as long as I don't have to wear a ball cap
, I am happy!
warbird
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,171
- Location
- Northern Virginia
It certainly does cost considerably more for an all beaver blank. I agree that you can't sell them for !40 and make money. That said, I wouldn't pay for an all beaver cowboy what Stetson wants for one or some of the custom hat makers either.
Stetson makes a quality hat, especially their cowboy hats. I think they have made QC improvements to their hats in recent years. Once you have a rep for dwindling quality, it is hard to reverse. I don't think Stetson can compare themselves to a custom hatter. Machines do not finish off a hat like a person does and Stetson could not make money taking the time to hand do each hat. If they are a quality hat for the money then people will buy, if they try to charge more than the market will bear, they won't sell. A custom gives so many options to the end user, from accurate fitting to custom creases and brim, ribbon, etc.
Most people on this lounge who wear the fedora have more issues with Stetsons styles and the way they finish off the hats than they do the quality, after all you can't compare a mixed fur Stetson with an all beaver custom and expect to have a good outcome. My opinion is many have decided they just don't like modern fur at all, period. That's fine. But, most here do not like the low tapered crowns, the lack of colors, ribbon styles, brim sizes, etc from Stetson today. They make what they think they can sell and most don't go to a custom hatter, they buy from hat shops.
I bet Stetson would sell a lot ,more Open Roads for instance if they made them softer and easier to shape and not like cardboard. The Nostalgia might be a start in the right direction, but again people want to have the ability to buy one with brim binding, etc. Consumers want choices and if Stetson wants to be in that fedora marketplace, they have to offer choices. Maybe they don't really want to be in that market. Cowboy hats sell in far greater numbers and bring a higher profit than fedoras and in those they offer many styles and creases. When and if the day comes that many more wear fedoras, you will again see the options and choices increase greatly, IMO.
Stetson makes a quality hat, especially their cowboy hats. I think they have made QC improvements to their hats in recent years. Once you have a rep for dwindling quality, it is hard to reverse. I don't think Stetson can compare themselves to a custom hatter. Machines do not finish off a hat like a person does and Stetson could not make money taking the time to hand do each hat. If they are a quality hat for the money then people will buy, if they try to charge more than the market will bear, they won't sell. A custom gives so many options to the end user, from accurate fitting to custom creases and brim, ribbon, etc.
Most people on this lounge who wear the fedora have more issues with Stetsons styles and the way they finish off the hats than they do the quality, after all you can't compare a mixed fur Stetson with an all beaver custom and expect to have a good outcome. My opinion is many have decided they just don't like modern fur at all, period. That's fine. But, most here do not like the low tapered crowns, the lack of colors, ribbon styles, brim sizes, etc from Stetson today. They make what they think they can sell and most don't go to a custom hatter, they buy from hat shops.
I bet Stetson would sell a lot ,more Open Roads for instance if they made them softer and easier to shape and not like cardboard. The Nostalgia might be a start in the right direction, but again people want to have the ability to buy one with brim binding, etc. Consumers want choices and if Stetson wants to be in that fedora marketplace, they have to offer choices. Maybe they don't really want to be in that market. Cowboy hats sell in far greater numbers and bring a higher profit than fedoras and in those they offer many styles and creases. When and if the day comes that many more wear fedoras, you will again see the options and choices increase greatly, IMO.
ScottyBlues
Familiar Face
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- 83
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
I agree that this has been a good discussion. I have lots of hats for different occasions. My Stetson Pinnacle is EXACTLY what I wanted for the situations in which I wear it. It's a great hat.
If I'm going to order a custom hat, I'm going to order something I can't otherwise get, whether that is a different color, crown height, or ribbon style.
As long as the production manufacturers are producing hats I like at a reasonable cost, I will buy them. If we don't, they will stop making them altogether. As great as Art's hats are, I doubt he could keep up with the demand for all of our needs.
Besides, I don't like using my expensive hats for everyday wear. I wear my Federation Deluxe a lot. I also have some mid-grade Stetsons and Biltmore's that are my more everyday hats. I bust out my Pinnacle on formal occasions (not tuxedo level formal but for weddings, funerals, or commissoning a new star ship), and I wear my Vintage Silhoutte hats when I'm going out in a jacket or suit, say, to a concert or for a dinner.
Again, all of this is just MY system and I would never suggest that anyone else adopt it.
If I'm going to order a custom hat, I'm going to order something I can't otherwise get, whether that is a different color, crown height, or ribbon style.
As long as the production manufacturers are producing hats I like at a reasonable cost, I will buy them. If we don't, they will stop making them altogether. As great as Art's hats are, I doubt he could keep up with the demand for all of our needs.
Besides, I don't like using my expensive hats for everyday wear. I wear my Federation Deluxe a lot. I also have some mid-grade Stetsons and Biltmore's that are my more everyday hats. I bust out my Pinnacle on formal occasions (not tuxedo level formal but for weddings, funerals, or commissoning a new star ship), and I wear my Vintage Silhoutte hats when I'm going out in a jacket or suit, say, to a concert or for a dinner.
Again, all of this is just MY system and I would never suggest that anyone else adopt it.
HatFan
New in Town
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- Orange County CA
Arasen, be sure to post back and let us know what you think of the Pinnacle once you get it.
carter
I'll Lock Up
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- Corsicana, TX
Remodling vintage fur felt
For those who "just don't like modern fur at all, period", there is at least one alternative to buying a custom hat. That is to buy a vintage fur felt hat near your size if you can find one. Then send it to a custom hatter, have them treat it as a blank, and reblock it in a new style. This may not work for everyone but it has worked for me. I've had old hats resized and reblocked. For decent money, you can get a new hat made with a vintage felt. It helps to use your imagination and try to see what lies beneath an old hat.
There are folks here on the FL who have done this themselves. I'm not that ambitious, brave, or talented.
Just one comment on Warbird's excellent post.warbird said:
For those who "just don't like modern fur at all, period", there is at least one alternative to buying a custom hat. That is to buy a vintage fur felt hat near your size if you can find one. Then send it to a custom hatter, have them treat it as a blank, and reblock it in a new style. This may not work for everyone but it has worked for me. I've had old hats resized and reblocked. For decent money, you can get a new hat made with a vintage felt. It helps to use your imagination and try to see what lies beneath an old hat.
There are folks here on the FL who have done this themselves. I'm not that ambitious, brave, or talented.
mrwilmoth
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 58
- Location
- Redlands, CA
The Stetson Pinnacle is an awesome hat if you can get one at cost
McGeezer
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 52
- Location
- Columbia SC
My .02...I recently purchased a Stetson "Wharton" at a local store. Don't know the vintage, but judging from the dust that was on the box, it had been there a while. I find it very well made and comfortable.
That said, I will be looking to order a custom hat in the near future....once I gain some more knowledge.
That said, I will be looking to order a custom hat in the near future....once I gain some more knowledge.
- Messages
- 10,524
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- DnD Ranch, Cherokee County, GA
I have 1 Pinnacle & sold another that I bought used & customized.The Stetson Pinnacle is an awesome hat if you can get one at cost
They are good quality beaver fur hats but just a tad low-crowned for me.
I punched out the factory crease & raised it as high as I could.
I can't see paying full retail price but good if you can get them at a discount.
