STEP BY STEP NAPTHA BATH

[tonyb]

Soaking the hat whole in naphtha can indeed clean it up a bit. I know of only one person who has had naphtha do any perceptible damage to his hat. It was our very own Rick Blaine, quite some time ago. The sweatband on his hat was quite damaged by it and the dye (or something) in the leather transfered to the felt.

FWIW (keeping in mind that I'm no chemist), I've used both VM&P (varnish maker's and painter's) naphtha (from the paint department at hardware store) and Coleman brand camp fuel. They sure don't look or smell like they're the same thing.

Donning a pair of rubber gloves and scrubbing the naphtha (or whatever solvent you're using) into the felt might get out some soiling that the soaking alone will leave in. But if you're not taking the hat apart, well, getting at some of that soiling might be difficult, if not impossible.

I'm a bit reluctant to disclose the following, but that the heck ...

Perhaps the most effective felt cleaner is soap and water. It's considerably easier and more pleasant to work with than naphtha, etc., it's much, much less expensive, and it does a better job than those flammable compounds at getting out those really nasty, greasy sweat stains that form at the bandline on well-used hats. Such has been my experience, anyway. Soak and scrub. Soak and scrub. Rinse, rinse, rinse. We very rarely see examples of such hats posted here, by the way, but "work" hats (Westerns, usually), the kind that get worn for years on end in hot and cold weather by people who routinely work up a sweat, can be so dirty at the bandline that you can't even see the felt through all the funk. It's impregnated clear through with a combination of sweat and dirt. The surface is often shiny with it. But it can indeed be cleaned almost good as new. But you gotta take the hat apart and put it back together again. And you need to reblock it. And flange it. No shortcuts. So it's considerably more work that just soaking a hat whole in a bucket of camp fuel.

 

[feltfan]

Perhaps the most effective felt cleaner is soap and water.

Hm... interesting... and a lot more appealing than playing with
flammables.

What kind of soap do you use? Dr. Bronners? Ivory? Woolite?

As I recall
(http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=895319&postcount=6) you have also suggested white vinegar.
I might stick to water, soap, and vinegar for a while...

 

[Aureliano]

Soap & water...

I've washed a couple of hats with woolite and lukewarm water. Very good results. Both hats, though, shrank a little bit but with steam and the hat jack they stretched back rapidly. On the second hat I washed, I noticed that the crown developed (unless it was alway like that and I never noticed?...[huh] )
a little bit of taper. If indeed taper can occur, is there any way to avoid it?
is there any way to avoid the shrinking?

Rusty, thanks for posting this thread!

 

[Wolfmanjack]

I'm a bit reluctant to disclose the following, but that the heck ...

Perhaps the most effective felt cleaner is soap and water. It's considerably easier and more pleasant to work with than naphtha, etc., it's much, much less expensive, and it does a better job than those flammable compounds at getting out those really nasty, greasy sweat stains that form at the bandline on well-used hats. Such has been my experience, anyway. Soak and scrub. Soak and scrub. Rinse, rinse, rinse. We very rarely see examples of such hats posted here, by the way, but "work" hats (Westerns, usually), the kind that get worn for years on end in hot and cold weather by people who routinely work up a sweat, can be so dirty at the bandline that you can't even see the felt through all the funk. It's impregnated clear through with a combination of sweat and dirt. The surface is often shiny with it. But it can indeed be cleaned almost good as new. But you gotta take the hat apart and put it back together again. And you need to reblock it. And flange it. No shortcuts. So it's considerably more work that just soaking a hat whole in a bucket of camp fuel.

WOW, Tony! That is really an impressive tale. I'm going to try this; but first, a few questions:

Question 1.:- I, too, would like to know the kind of soap you use.

Question 2.:- When you say, "...you gotta take the hat apart..." does that mean removing the sweat as well?

Question 3.:- If the lid is not in severe "work hat" condition, but just a little dirty, e.g., some light grease stains at the pinch in the crown, is complete disassembly really necessary?​

 

[Wolfmanjack]

I've washed a couple of hats with woolite and lukewarm water. Very good results. Both hats, though, shrank a little bit but with steam and the hat jack they stretched back rapidly. On the second hat I washed, I noticed that the crown developed (unless it was alway like that and I never noticed?...[huh] )
a little bit of taper. If indeed taper can occur, is there any way to avoid it?
is there any way to avoid the shrinking?

Rusty, thanks for posting this thread!

The best way to deal with shrinking and taper is to use a hat block and flange, while the hat is still damp.

These are very handy tools to have in your DIY hat kit. They turn up on eBay occasionally. Make the seller give you some measurements, to be sure you're getting the right size.

 

[Aureliano]

Yeah, I own a flange. Not a block yet

 

[tonyb]

Hm... interesting... and a lot more appealing than playing with
flammables.

What kind of soap do you use? Dr. Bronners? Ivory? Woolite?

As I recall
(http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=895319&postcount=6) you have also suggested white vinegar.
I might stick to water, soap, and vinegar for a while...

I recommended water and white vinegar for dissolving sweat (salt) stains on grosgrain hat band ribbon. But I doubt vinegar would harm anything if it were included in a soap-and-water solution for cleaning felt. And it might help.

 

[tonyb]

WOW, Tony! That is really an impressive tale. I'm going to try this; but first, a few questions:

Question 1.:- I, too, would like to know the kind of soap you use.

Question 2.:- When you say, "...you gotta take the hat apart..." does that mean removing the sweat as well?

Question 3.:- If the lid is not in severe "work hat" condition, but just a little dirty, e.g., some light grease stains at the pinch in the crown, is complete disassembly really necessary?​

I use dishwashing soap in cold water in a wash basin.

Yes, you had better take the hat apart, as soaking that sweatband in soap and water would probably ruin it. Indeed, I'd bet on it.

AN IMPORTANT CAVEAT ...

I STRONGLY RECOMMEND AGAINST USING A WATER SOLUTION UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER BLOCK AND FLANGE.

Your hat body will as much resemble a dishrag as anything once you've cleaned it in soap and water. I could see spot treating it and hoping for the best, but if you soak the entire hat in water, repeatedly, well, it'll lose its shape. So you really gotta block and flange it. You'll have to iron it while it's on the block and perhaps even lure it.

Here's where naphtha and other such solvents come in handy. They don't seem to have such an effect on hat felt. Naphtha certainly has its place in the do-it-yourself hat man's arsenal.

 

[buler]

I recommended water and white vinegar for dissolving sweat (salt) stains on grosgrain hat band ribbon. But I doubt vinegar would harm anything if it were included in a soap-and-water solution for cleaning felt. And it might help.

Vinegar is the old standard for cleaning. People have been using it in a water solution to clean for ages. I can attest to its ability. I had a painted porcelain plaque that had years of disgusting smokers tar/grease covering it. I could just barely make out the image on it. Soap and hot water did nothing to it. Didn't even begin to clean any of it off. I soaked it in water with vinegar for a couple of days and it all wiped right off!

B

 

[tonyb]

Vinegar is the old standard for cleaning. People have been using it in a water solution to clean for ages. I can attest to its ability. I had a painted porcelain plaque that had years of disgusting smokers tar/grease covering it. I could just barely make out the image on it. Soap and hot water did nothing to it. Didn't even begin to clean any of it off. I soaked it in water with vinegar for a couple of days and it all wiped right off!

B

Yup. I recall my mother buying it by the gallon. A staple item, it was. Always had some around.

Your post is a reminder of how so much of the high-priced cleaning potions we buy at the supermarket these days are really no more effective than those much simpler, much less expensive compounds we once used routinely.

 

[feltfan]

Thanks tonyb.

Let me offer one caveat regarding vinegar. I used it a while back
to clean a part on my espresso machine. The part was made of
brass and heavily chromed. I made the mistake of leaving it in
the vinegar for a couple of days. It significantly etched the brass,
removing a fair amount of the chrome and leaving a pitted surface.
I had to throw it out.

Vinegar is some serious stuff. That's why I didn't consider using
vinegar except in unusual circumstances until I heard that tonyb
had done it.

 

[tonyb]

Thanks tonyb.

Let me offer one caveat regarding vinegar. I used it a while back
to clean a part on my espresso machine. The part was made of
brass and heavily chromed. I made the mistake of leaving it in
the vinegar for a couple of days. It significantly etched the brass,
removing a fair amount of the chrome and leaving a pitted surface.
I had to throw it out.

Vinegar is some serious stuff. That's why I didn't consider using
vinegar except in unusual circumstances until I heard that tonyb
had done it.

Yes, thanks for that. There can indeed be too much of what might be a good thing in smaller doses.

As an example, I recently read, in a link posted in another forum here at the FL, that soaking silk (ties, scarves, etc.) in water with a mild cleaning agent is recommended, but that the silk shouldn't be left in that solution for more than just a few minutes. So, now I know NOT to do THAT again.

I regret that I'm not at all well versed in that pH stuff. You know, when you want acidity at certain levels and when you don't. Lord knows I've learned several things NOT to do through bitter experience.

 

[RobStC]

Naptha cleaning in the UK?

Does anyone out there know of a place in the UK where I could get a hat 'naptha' cleaned?

Both Bates and Locks in London say that all they offer cleaning-wise is 'steam and brushing'.

I don't especially fancy tackling this myself, for lots of reasons (finding the stuff in the first place, disposal of soiled naptha after use, storing a container of naptha in our flat (apartment) etc etc.)

The hat in question is a new 'old stock' Johnnyphi Adam, which seems to have picked up something over its years in storage that gives me eczema on my face whenever I wear it . Would naptha cleaning get rid of this sort of nasty? The hat, even though it had never been worn, was extremely dusty with a strong smell to it when I bought it, so I'm wondering if it's something within the felt that is having this effect. It's been brushed and brushed, steamed and sponged several times, plus been worn in the rain too, but all to no avail.....

Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks.

Rob StC

 

[cookie]

Does anyone out there know of a place in the UK where I could get a hat 'naptha' cleaned?

Both Bates and Locks in London say that all they offer cleaning-wise is 'steam and brushing'.

I don't especially fancy tackling this myself, for lots of reasons (finding the stuff in the first place, disposal of soiled naptha after use, storing a container of naptha in our flat (apartment) etc etc.)

The hat in question is a new 'old stock' Johnnyphi Adam, which seems to have picked up something over its years in storage that gives me eczema on my face whenever I wear it . Would naptha cleaning get rid of this sort of nasty? The hat, even though it had never been worn, was extremely dusty with a strong smell to it when I bought it, so I'm wondering if it's something within the felt that is having this effect. It's been brushed and brushed, steamed and sponged several times, plus been worn in the rain too, but all to no avail.....

Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks.

Rob StC

Optimo Hatters Chicago.

 

[colps]

What a great thread Thanks RBH!!!

 

[jonbuilder]

When I soak my hat in naptha I turn the sweat up place the hat in the container crown down and fill the hat to the brim leaving the sweat above the naptha level. I use a round rock to weight the hat down. I found if I leave the sweat down the dye in the sweat could transfer to the felt. I have reused naptha several times passing it through a filer and tossing the residue in the bottom of the container. Never had any issues with ribbon but long soaks can mute the color on vintage crown logos

 

[RobStC]

Naptha cleaning in the UK?

Optimo Hatters Chicago.

Thanks Cookie - don't know if you were joking or not, but it does look as if no one in the UK offers this service at all, so Optimo might in fact be the nearest![huh]

Sending the hat to the US and back would cost more than the hat is worth.....

Leaving aside how nasty (environmentally) Naptha is and what to do with the soiled stuff once used, it seems that Coleman Camping Fuel (Naptha) costs the equivalent of about (US)$85~ per gallon in the UK, at least through the normal retail sources I've checked so far. I do want to get the hat back into a wearable state, so I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and get to grips with it myself. Ho hum.....

Thanks for the tutorial, RBH.

RobStC

 

[buler]

Dry Cleaning book

Here is a book from 1919 on Dry Cleaning. Has some detail on naptha and many other chemicals and substances to use for specific fabrics and stains/spots. Chapter 7 is on hats.

GoogleBookLink
B

 

[Tone]

Neat tutorial on the Naptha bath. Especially for those hats. Here's some good info on the reasons for using Naptha in order to keep from breaking down the stiffener in a hat.

http://thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=398

Would a hat like the Borsalino (modern even), take to this quick and easy Naptha method, too? Anyone done that?

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

This has been a very useful thread. Could one of you helpful bartenders please shift it into the "Links to important Hat Forum Threads" sticky so we can find it easily for future reference.

Ta.