Star Trek

[Doctor Strange]

Scotty, I'm with you on DS9. The one classic Trek series that always left me cold. (Enterprise too, to some extent. But I liked it better than DS9.)

I just couldn't get into its purposely anti-previous-Trek characters and situations. And then, its long plot arcs were a major problem for me, because it was airing exactly when we had a toddler and an infant... and sitting down to watch DS9 (or even remembering to record it on VHS) was nigh impossible.

That said, there are some good performances, strong episodes, and interesting ideas in the series, and I guess if shades-of-gray morality is your thing, it's a great Trek series.

I know there's a certain age cohort within Gen X that adores it, maybe because it was their first major exposure to more complex, compromised-morality storytelling as impressionable teens.

But I was already pushing 40.

 

[Trenchfriend]

But I was already pushing 40.

I was pushing 10, when it started on german TV and it never got me. But Babylon 5 didn't, too. Trashy cheese.

 

[sal]

Babylon 5 was way ahead of it’s time when it aired.

 

[LizzieMaine]

As a devoted Niner, I feel triggered. It was, to me, the first Trek that actually felt *real," and I had been watching since 1969. I never missed a single episode of the entire original run, and still watch the reruns regularly. It's not just my favorite Trek, it's my pick for the best television show, in any genre, of the entire 1990s, and unlike TNG, which is often badly dated, it holds up even better today.

Besides, it had Worf playing baseball. The Sisko explained the entire mechanics of linear existence using baseball. And I love baseball.

 

[scottyrocks]

I always try to tread lightly when talking negatively about DS9 here, only because I know how much Lizzie likes it.

Tonight we watched the last two episodes of CS, and enjoyed them both quite a lot, laughing and 'oh-yeahng' throughout.

One point in the Enterprise episode that brought back memories was the fan reaction to 'Where My Heart Will take Me/Faith of the Heart.' I remember the negativity when the show was released. I, however, loved the song,

I remember seeing it for the first time, thinking how unlike Star Trek it was, and yet feeling how powerful it was, showing the evolution of exploratory vehicular travel through the ages, and how seemlessly they went from real events and vessels up to that time, and right into vehicles that don't actually exist (yet). These visuals, combined with the song was, to me, perfect. I still love watching the opening.

Unfortunately, Enterprise wore thin for me very quickly, as it didn't seem to know where it was going. I think I was initially captivated by the structure and visuals of NX-01, both inside and out. Oh yeah, and Jolene Blalock.

 

[Jon Crow]

I always try to tread lightly when talking negatively about DS9 here, only because I know how much Lizzie likes it.

Tonight we watched the last two episodes of CS, and enjoyed them both quite a lot, laughing and 'oh-yeahng' throughout.

One point in the Enterprise episode that brought back memories was the fan reaction to 'Where My Heart Will take Me/Faith of the Heart.' I remember the negativity when the show was released. I, however, loved the song,

I remember seeing it for the first time, thinking how unlike Star Trek it was, and yet feeling how powerful it was, showing the evolution of exploratory vehicular travel through the ages, and how seemlessly they went from real events and vessels up to that time, and right into vehicles that don't actually exist (yet). These visuals, combined with the song was, to me, perfect. I still love watching the opening.

Unfortunately, Enterprise wore thin for me very quickly, as it didn't seem to know where it was going. I think I was initially captivated by the structure and visuals of NX-01, both inside and out. Oh yeah, and Jolene Blalock.

Jolene Blalock oh yes haha

 

[Doctor Strange]

Sorry, Lizzie. I know your devotion to DS9 and tried to tread lightly too. (It's not DS9, it's me!) But I have to be honest about how it hits me. I didn't like it when it aired, I didn't like it when I made several efforts to catch up on it later (I did try!), and I don't like it when I come across an episode now.

And I have always had zero interest in baseball (or any other sport), so let's blame it on that defect in my personality!

Re Enterprise, as we observed when it aired and was pointed out in The Center Seat, it FINALLY found its way in its final season (after that meh Xindi arc) - leaning into the established continuity and being more about how the Federation of TOS came to be. It was suddenly kind of fun. Alas, that's when it was canceled, and with that misbegotten Riker and Troi on the holodeck thing.

The franchise sputtered to exhaustion with the underwhelming one-two punch of Enterprise and Nemesis. It looked like the end... and for some of us, it pretty much was.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I was annoyed when they announced that the next series after Voyager ended was going to be a prequel -- I was looking forward to seeing what was going to happen in the Alpha Quadrant post-Dominion War. One of the things I had most admired about DS9 was its unflinching look at the realpolitik of the Federation, and there was a lot of potential for further exploration of the new balance of power. We never really got that.

I tried to get into "Enterprise," because it was there, but I thought it took a long time finding its footing. And when it finally did, they cancelled it. Because I was having some health issues during 2003-2004, I missed most of the last season, and when I finally caught up with it I ws pleasantly surprised at the improvement. I did see the ridiculous finale when it first aired, though, and that put me off trying to see the rest of the final season for a long, long time.

 

[FOXTROT LAMONT]

Besides, it had Worf playing baseball. The Sisko explained the entire mechanics of linear existence using baseball. And I love baseball.

What's baseball?
Joke. silly impertinent me.

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's obviously the key to understanding linear existance!

 

[scottyrocks]

It's obviously the key to understanding linear existance!

View attachment 497060

Absolutely.

You start out in one direction, get whacked with a stick, and then fly off in another direction, occasionally skidding through the dirt. Rinse and repeat.

 

[scottyrocks]

After much hemming and hawing, we finally signed up for Paramount+.

And after almost a week of binge-watching, we finished the 1st season of Strange New Worlds.

Without giving anything (much?) away, I love what they did with it. Some subtle, and not so subtle, and clever plot twists and tie-ins to TOS just added to the smile and wow factors. And there were tears, too. The characters became friends here very quickly, and I felt for them probably right where and what I was supposed to.

It is paced much like TOS. Some episodes are light, some are serious, and there is a good mix of character development, action, and plot.

Now that we have P+, I have more Trek-catching-up to do.

'Hit it.'

 

[Trenchfriend]

If I could make a suggestion, I would suggest to try a spin-off with Hugh and maybe 7of9.
Maybe a time travel storyline. Could be interesting, if the makers would drop any stupid bombast, this time.
I think, Jonathan del Arco got what it takes to transport a powerful story.

Where are Ronald D. Moore, Rick Berman and Brannon Braga??

 

[Trenchfriend]

Ah, I didn't fully remember the scene.

 

[Doctor Damage]

And after almost a week of binge-watching, we finished the 1st season of Strange New Worlds.

Without giving anything (much?) away, I love what they did with it. Some subtle, and not so subtle, and clever plot twists and tie-ins to TOS just added to the smile and wow factors. And there were tears, too. The characters became friends here very quickly, and I felt for them probably right where and what I was supposed to.

It is paced much like TOS. Some episodes are light, some are serious, and there is a good mix of character development, action, and plot.

I agree with you, on all your points. I didn't expect much from the series, but wow it's simply great. I can hardly wait for season 2. By contrast, I found Picard to be "meh."

 

[Zombie_61]

I agree with you, on all your points. I didn't expect much from the series, but wow it's simply great. I can hardly wait for season 2. By contrast, I found Picard to be "meh."

Even though I liked it, I can't disagree with you about Picard. The entire first season seemed to be nothing more than establishing the show's premise, and getting the characters off on relatively meaningless tasks just to firmly establish said premise. Season 2 follows the same pattern, but re-introduces John de Lancie as Q. I found the character to be completely annoying in the regular Next Generation series, but here is somewhat likeable in his rather minimal screen time, and it's a little fun to see Q and Picard getting on each others' nerves again. Season 3 deviates from the established pattern, as the "new" characters are almost forgotten in favor of reuniting the Next Generation main characters (with the exception of Wesley Crusher) for one last "Save the Universe!" unsanctioned mission.

Now, I think I've mentioned it here before, but I'm not a fan of Star Trek's Next Generation era. I don't like the aesthetics, the Enterprise "D" is one of the ugliest designs in the history of science fiction, and, with the occasional exception, the acting is no better than low-end cosplay much of the time. I made it through Next Generation's first run, but don't enjoy watching the reruns at all; far too "dated". Deep Space Nine was like watching security footage taken from a 1990s shopping mall, and Voyager is unwatchably bad. This is only my opinion; I could be wrong. I still enjoy watching the Original Series and can muddle through Enterprise's better episodes. That said, I found Picard Season 3 to be very enjoyable. I may not have cared much for the characters' younger incarnations, but now that they've matured a bit it was fun to watch them play together and save the universe once again.

 

[Trenchfriend]

Back to Wrath of Khan.

One question, I always had going round in my mind:
How could Khan and his crew know, which vital points had to be hit on a Constitution Class ship to disable it?

Sure, every Federation vessel's blueprint would be in the ships database, but wouldn't they have to study the Starfleet engineering exactly in super short time?
AND did they know about the Enterprise's refit?

 

[scottyrocks]

I believe it was pointed out in the ToS episode Space Seed that Khan and his crew were super-good at everything, including learning, being genetically engineered and all.

 

[Trenchfriend]

I believe it was pointed out in the ToS episode Space Seed that Khan and his crew were super-good at everything, including learning, being genetically engineered and all.

Yeah, of course, they are super-"mutants".
But otherwise, they didn't know about the security-prefix code, Kirk was using on the Defiant and Khan had no idea how to do the recall of Kirks remote shields down-order.

 

[Edward]

After much hemming and hawing, we finally signed up for Paramount+.

And after almost a week of binge-watching, we finished the 1st season of Strange New Worlds.

Without giving anything (much?) away, I love what they did with it. Some subtle, and not so subtle, and clever plot twists and tie-ins to TOS just added to the smile and wow factors. And there were tears, too. The characters became friends here very quickly, and I felt for them probably right where and what I was supposed to.

It is paced much like TOS. Some episodes are light, some are serious, and there is a good mix of character development, action, and plot.

Now that we have P+, I have more Trek-catching-up to do.

'Hit it.'

I just watched the first three episodes last week on a flight to Beijing. Really good. It's not easy, I think, getting the aesthetics just right doing a prequel now to TOS, but I think they nailed it well here. I'll be looking forward to seeing the rest of this when it filters down to channels to which I have access, or at some point when we give Netflix a break again for something else.