Space: end of an era?

[_Nightwing]

Flares can be an issue, but even the shielding used on an Apollo lunar module provided enough protection to an astronaut to protect them from a lethal dose of radiation.

The Apollo craft didn't have any radiation shielding, just it's thin hull.

And no one is going to be outside during a flare.

Why wouldn't they be? Solar flares are unpredictable.

So getting to moon and staying short term doesn't appear to be a big problem

I'll believe that when another country manages to engineer the forty year-old technology to repeat the feat.

 

[scotrace]

Well, gee. They DID go to the moon a few times. And they came back. And they didn't get their butts zapped off by the solar flares or angry Lunar Gunslingers. Is it hard to believe they can do it again, with forty years of new knowledge to apply?

 

[_Nightwing]

It should be easy shouldn't it? We'll see how that works out.

 

[jbmilart]

Well Miss Marsha...check out the Celestron 8SE telescope on www.telescope.com. The bundle package is the best deal around...anywhere. The rating of this telescope is very good. It's small enough to take to a remote area and is very quick to set up. I've been saving my money to get one...but with this economy...it might take me awhile. Also check out the Celestron website for some of the astronomy photos taken with this telescope...really great.

Jim

 

[sheeplady]

Well, gee. They DID go to the moon a few times. And they came back. And they didn't get their butts zapped off by the solar flares or angry Lunar Gunslingers. Is it hard to believe they can do it again, with forty years of new knowledge to apply?

One of the problems is that NASA's record keeping hasn't been very good. It's always a problem to capture nuanced knowledge about things, as opposed to just "information." And in some cases, some information was never captured or lost from the early missions. Or can't be found easily. (This is a problem in most industries- knowledge loss upon retirement.)

Most of the people who have lots of experience (particularly with the Moon landing) are now either retired or dead. It's a similar problem to the US nuclear industry- we haven't built a nuclear plant in several decades. Although we have plenty of qualified nuclear engineers, those that had first-hand experience building the existing plants are retired (or dead). We have the plans, sure, but the knowledge that comes from first-hand experience is quite different from the information recorded in plans or records.

And the problem is, we don't have a good way of capturing that knowledge.

I'm not arguing that they can't do it again, it's just that it's not going to be a piece of cake because somebody did it before. There are going to be a lot of repeated mistakes that may have been avoided had younger generations had the experiences of doing these things with the help of those who had the first hand knowledge.

 

[RichardH]

No-ones's going to the Moon until they solve the problem of deadly radiation from the Van Allen belts and solar flares, I'm afraid.

"The Apollo astronauts traveled through the Van Allen radiation belts on the way to the moon, however, exposure was minimized by following a trajectory along the edge of the belts that avoided the strongest areas of radiation.[17] The total radiation exposure to astronauts was estimated to be much less than the five (5) rem set by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission for people who work with radioactivity"

They solved that problem way before the Apollo 8 mission in 1968.

And please take a look at the footage from the moon. If you know anything about physics you'd know that it would be impossible to replicate some of that stuff here on earth.. Unless they had a vacuum chamber the size of a large storage facility back in the day..

 

[Doc Smith]

I'm not arguing that they can't do it again, it's just that it's not going to be a piece of cake because somebody did it before. There are going to be a lot of repeated mistakes that may have been avoided had younger generations had the experiences of doing these things with the help of those who had the first hand knowledge.

Too true. Many mistakes have to be repeated as older hands leave for better jobs, or are laid off, or retire, or worse. It's a commonplace in more fields than just aerospace.

On the other hand, some of those veterans are going (or have already gone) to the "new space" companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin. Many of our best graduates have been joining them there, too. SpaceX has already showed it can put its Dragon capsule into orbit, and then survive a controlled reentry. I'm looking forward to seeing what Blue Origin is going to do.

Meanwhile, low Earth and geosynchronous orbit swarms with commercial and military spacecraft. Dozens of unmanned interplanetary missions are in preparation, underway, or returning science data. The Chinese government is steadily pushing its space program forward, and the Russians are working on new man-rated spacecraft and launch vehicles. Others have announced their intention to join the club, and may do so yet.

There may be a hiatus in manned spaceflight that originates in the US, but the space era is far from over.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Most of the people who have lots of experience (particularly with the Moon landing) are now either retired or dead.

Somewhere, deep in a forgotten underground NORAD base, near an abandoned field of missile silos, behind a nine-inch-thick stainless steel door, there's a cryogenic chamber containing Wernher von Braun. Just in case.

 

[jbmilart]

Hey Wernher...wake up! Guess you're going to have to start it all over again!...Hey buddy, you don't look so good... You sure this thing is workin'?...Wernher?

 

[_Nightwing]

"The Apollo astronauts traveled through the Van Allen radiation belts on the way to the moon, however, exposure was minimized by following a trajectory along the edge of the belts that avoided the strongest areas of radiation.

The translunar coast trajectories were all about thirty degrees, which don't minimize exposure to the Van Allen belts. A ninety degree trajectory launching from the polar regions would minimize it, but thirty was best possible trajectory they could take at the time. On that course they would have avoided the absolute strongest areas of radiation but they would still have been bathed in a big old amount of it for an hour each way as they passed through.

[17] The total radiation exposure to astronauts was estimated to be much less than the five (5) rem set by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission for people who work with radioactivity"

Using the thirty degree trajectory of the Apollo missions, and the Van Allen radiation data for this trajectory as provided by scientist E.E Kovalev, the radiation exposure would be more like seven hundred rem per hour. Five hundred would be the lethal dose.

They solved that problem way before the Apollo 8 mission in 1968.

And what about the problem of solar flares once they're through the belts?

And please take a look at the footage from the moon. If you know anything about physics you'd know that it would be impossible to replicate some of that stuff here on earth.. Unless they had a vacuum chamber the size of a large storage facility back in the day..

One of my favorites is Jack Schmitt from Apollo 17 bouncing around for about an hour with his protective gold visor up. Classic. They don't make guys like that anymore.