So trivial, yet it really ticks you off.

[KILO NOVEMBER]

The "what do we like, today?" stuff is coming from the old-fashioned serving language, right? I remember, that this adressing was much more common in the 90s in our "province".

Since them, they seemingly teached them to act more professional, with the one exception of chain stores, which want to be anyhow "youthful" and now adressing customers with "Du", what was probably stared by Ikea.

If that happens, I "turn a deaf ear to it".
Yes, sometimes, I may look too young for my age, but if that would be the real reason, adressing with "Du" would happen much more and not especially in these chain stores.

Just for fun, I could test it in the same stores, beeing dressed much more "upscale"-looking to see if they switch to "Sie".

This reminds me of a story a French teacher (that is, a teacher of the French language, not a teacher from France) from my high school told 50+ years ago. It seems there was a French man who had a servant of North African origin. This servant had limited French language skills and never learned "vous", only "tu". The employer was put out by the informality of address so he insisted on addressing the servant as "vous" in order to maintain a distinction.

I don't know if English ever had such a class distinction in pronouns, but if it did, it disappeared long before the King James Bible.

My German extends to the difference between "sie" and "du", but not much further.

 

[Cuvier]

Here's a trivial issue to kick off 2024.

My wife and I have lunch at an upscale (but not terrifically expensive) restaurant nearly every Sunday. All the servers have got into the practice of using the pronoun "we" when addressing us. I don't know if this is a training policy of the establishment or if it's one of those things that gets picked up unconsciously from other servers.

Now I am not the king of anything, so I find the use of we (instead of the correct "you") to be both pretentious and presumptuous. Unless that waiter or waitress is planning to sit at the table and have lunch with us, he or she should not ask, "Have we decided what we'd like for lunch today?", or "Have we saved room for dessert?" (No, we haven't, we are counting our calories.)

Now that pronouns used to address us is practically a life-or-death issue, I'd like to ask all waiters and waitresses to address me as "you", and never, ever address me as "we".

I'm not too upset with "we". However I'm not going to let it slide either. My usual response to "What are we having?" Is either "I'm having ......... I'm not paying for yours though." Or "Oh! I didn't realize WE are on a date!"

 

[GHT]

Here's a trivial issue to kick off 2024.

My wife and I have lunch at an upscale (but not terrifically expensive) restaurant nearly every Sunday. All the servers have got into the practice of using the pronoun "we" when addressing us. I don't know if this is a training policy of the establishment or if it's one of those things that gets picked up unconsciously from other servers.

Now I am not the king of anything, so I find the use of we (instead of the correct "you") to be both pretentious and presumptuous. Unless that waiter or waitress is planning to sit at the table and have lunch with us, he or she should not ask, "Have we decided what we'd like for lunch today?", or "Have we saved room for dessert?" (No, we haven't, we are counting our calories.)

Now that pronouns used to address us is practically a life-or-death issue, I'd like to ask all waiters and waitresses to address me as "you", and never, ever address me as "we".

It's a general drop in standards, or at least, so it seems. Nowadays official letters rarely address me as Dear Mr. The most common address that I get, even from my bank and local authority, is: "Hi Robert." I don't even warrant a "Dear Robert."

Maybe it's all down to email and the loss of the written word but when the recipient of the letter is old enough to be your parent, use an honorific, until that person tells you to call them by their first name. In business, err on the side of formality. The other person can always say, “Please call me, (first name).” No harm, no foul and my temperature stays constant.

I don't know if English ever had such a class distinction in pronouns, but if it did, it disappeared long before the King James Bible.

It did, thee, thine and thou were once in common use.In the 17th century thee, thine and thou fell into disuse in the standard language, often regarded as impolite, it's probably why English speaking countries from the 17th century on never used the familiar form of you.

 

[LizzieMaine]

And then there's the drive-thru order board that replies to your desperate request for lunch with "MMM! GREAT ORDER!" No it isn't, it's crap, and I know it's crap, and it's probably gonna be COLD crap by the time I get it but all the other cheap places to eat have been driven out of town by all this stupid gentrification, and I only have fifteen minutes to grab something before I have to get back to work, and your positive affirmations WILL NOT MAKE IT ANY BETTER. Wait, you forgot my fries.

 

[tonyb]

Got this text message yesterday.
I long ago had my fill of these parasitic real estate “professionals.“
So no, Kayla (sorry, no exclamation point), we are not receptive to offers on our home, and if we were, you would be the last person we’d do business with.

 

[belfastboy]

I'm not too upset with "we". However I'm not going to let it slide either. My usual response to "What are we having?" Is either "I'm having ......... I'm not paying for yours though." Or "Oh! I didn't realize WE are on a date!"

A convo killer is when I respond to the 'we' from a cute server.......I reply "I am not buying you lunch unless we sleep together afterwards!". That pretty much ends the friendly banter right there.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Got this text message yesterday.
I long ago had my fill of these parasitic real estate “professionals.“
So no, Kayla (sorry, no exclamation point), we are not receptive to offers on our home, and if we were, you would be the last person we’d do business with.

View attachment 576249

I got one of those smarmy "a house in your neighborhood just sold!" cards a while back and I wrote a letter to the paper notifying all the real estate parasites that the only way I intend to leave my house is feet first in a bag,and they can quit wasting their postage on me. It was a good five years until I got another one. I think it's time to write another letter.

 

[tonyb]

^^^^^^
I have fears for the future of the “American Dream“ of homeownership and generational wealth, what with reverse mortgages and mega investors buying up residential properties and entire multi-family properties becoming what are essentially hotels, occupied entirely by short-term renters.

The folks next door, with whom we get along quite well, have a reverse mortgage. I understand why they went that route. But it’s a cryin’ shame that they and so many millions like them are faced with the choice of burning up their equity (and thereby leaving their progeny with zip) through a reverse mortgage or forgoing those pricy prescriptions (even with Medicare Part D) that are keeping them alive.

And I fear for what will become of the neighbor’s place, once they no longer reside there. Here’s hoping that day is long in coming.

There are numerous low-end motels near me. One boasts of its weekly rates of $479.99 (and up, plus taxes). People check in toting plastic trash bags filled with their meager worldly effects. Desperate people spending $2,000 and more per month to occupy a 200-square-foot motel room.

There but for the grace of God …

 

[LizzieMaine]

This is what has happened in my town over the past ten years. A disturbingly large number of houses have been bought up, often sight unseen and for cash by out of state "investors" who then take them out of the local rental market and turn them into seasonal or AirBNB units. The result has been a complete collapse of the local labor pool -- people who can no longer afford to live in a community are not going to have any interest in working in it, especially not in "amenity" jobs. Many, many businesses have been forced to close for lack of workers, and many others operate with skeleton staffs and have been forced to limit operating hours for the simple reason that there's nobody available to do the work. All this for the sake of a relatively small number of well-to-do "entrepreneurs" with no particular ties to or interest in the community beyond what they can squeeze out of it. And the carcass of what used to be a thriving little working-class city is now just about completely dried out.

My only consolation is knowing I won't live long enough to see the final outcome.

 

[tonyb]

As I’ve surely noted in this space before, short-term rentals (I have one myself, although it hasn’t been put to that use since early in 2020) can be of net benefit to a community, if (and it’s a big if) they are well regulated.

In this jurisdiction, short-term rentals are limited to one unit per property in single-family zones, and the owner or lessee must reside on that property. Lodging taxes are collected, which, you know, help fund those municipal services we really can’t do without. And the income helps the primary occupants make the monthly nut, which is no small consideration for many. This is also the case with longer-term rentals of accessory dwelling units, which are similarly regulated.

It’s often a different matter in tourist destinations. A relative of mine made her not-so-modest (by our standards) fortune in the vacation rental business in her tourist town. She got into the business way back in the last century, when the short-term rental business was all but unknown in most places. Many of the property owners in her town have their primary residences in the major metropolitan area a three-hour drive away, and had been using their tourist town houses as weekend getaways. Persuading them to allow short-term renters to pay them when the properties were otherwise unoccupied was an easy sell. Has it had an inflationary effect on housing prices overall? It sure has.

I got one of those smarmy "a house in your neighborhood just sold!" cards a while back and I wrote a letter to the paper notifying all the real estate parasites that the only way I intend to leave my house is feet first in a bag,and they can quit wasting their postage on me. It was a good five years until I got another one. I think it's time to write another letter.

House prices here have nearly doubled in the 8-plus years we’ve been in this place. But the market has cooled considerably in recent months. Houses were on the market for a matter of days a year or so ago and fetched multiple offers. A place up the street was listed in August, the listing price was dropped after a couple weeks, and it was taken off the market just a few days ago. It appears it will be a rental through the foreseeable, seeing how the owners moved out last summer and have been feeding it ever since. They would have had better luck had they listed it six months earlier.

 

[tonyb]

This is what has happened in my town over the past ten years. A disturbingly large number of houses have been bought up, often sight unseen and for cash by out of state "investors" who then take them out of the local rental market and turn them into seasonal or AirBNB units. The result has been a complete collapse of the local labor pool -- people who can no longer afford to live in a community are not going to have any interest in working in it, especially not in "amenity" jobs. Many, many businesses have been forced to close for lack of workers, and many others operate with skeleton staffs and have been forced to limit operating hours for the simple reason that there's nobody available to do the work. All this for the sake of a relatively small number of well-to-do "entrepreneurs" with no particular ties to or interest in the community beyond what they can squeeze out of it. And the carcass of what used to be a thriving little working-class city is now just about completely dried out.

My only consolation is knowing I won't live long enough to see the final outcome.

Do these investors not fear killing the goose? Judging from your description, it seems they are kinda short-sighted.

Perhaps it’s a different matter where you are, but in the tourist town I alluded to above there is relatively affordable housing not far away. The town itself is economically dependent on tourism, but there’s lots of agriculture — orchards and vineyards, mostly — right nearby, and lots of ramshackle old houses and single-wides and such to keep a person warm and dry.

 

[LizzieMaine]

They really don't seem to care, and seem to do everything to obstruct the efforts of those of us who do care to do anything to limit their ability to do what they're doing. And they're gradually engulfing the entire coast and back about twenty or thirty miles inland. Nobody is going to drive thirty miles each way for a part-time job that won't cover the cost of their gas money.

Homelessness is exploding here. We lost a fulltime employee at the theatre a year or so back because he couldn't face the thought of living thru a Maine winter in his car.

 

[tonyb]

Do you ever get the sense that some people post here under more than one user name? Or that they disappeared under their old handle and reappeared under another? I’m all but certain of one such character from years past, and I have a strong suspicion of one currently posting.

 

[KILO NOVEMBER]

It did, thee, thine and thou were once in common use.In the 17th century thee, thine and thou fell into disuse in the standard language, often regarded as impolite, it's probably why English speaking countries from the 17th century on never used the familiar form of you.

My reading on this matter tells me that "thou" was a singular form while "you" was plural, but if you can be on familiar terms with God ("Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed by thy name."), who ranks above and would be owed a more respectful form of address?

 

[Edward]

My reading on this matter tells me that "thou" was a singular form while "you" was plural, but if you can be on familiar terms with God ("Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed by thy name."), who ranks above and would be owed a more respectful form of address?

I first came across this concept of different 'you' s in French (in the Dalriata and associate dialects, of course, we had 'you' and 'yous', but that was never formally accepted). For the French "Vous avez un probleme?" is an offer of help, whereas "tu as un probleme?" is an offer to take things outside...

 

[Edward]

It's a general drop in standards, or at least, so it seems. Nowadays official letters rarely address me as Dear Mr. The most common address that I get, even from my bank and local authority, is: "Hi Robert." I don't even warrant a "Dear Robert."

Maybe it's all down to email and the loss of the written word but when the recipient of the letter is old enough to be your parent, use an honorific, until that person tells you to call them by their first name. In business, err on the side of formality. The other person can always say, “Please call me, (first name).” No harm, no foul and my temperature stays constant.

It could be that email being much more informal is at the root of it. I have a colleague (now 83 and still going strong) who was quite horrified the first time he received an email from a student saying "Hi X!" I just roll with it myself now, really, as a different form of communication. As long as they know the difference when applying for a job... What horrifies me is how they all clearly find it quaint not that I use a fountain pen, but that I use a pen at all - most of them don't carry a pen, take all their notes on laptops and tablets. At least for now (though I suspect the pendulum will swing back within the decade) handwritten, traditional exams are out of vogue in the UK university sector, so they never have to handwrite anything. It'll be interesting to see if this changes over time as new research seems to be indicating that handwriting actually has a key role to play in the development of knowledge in a manner that typing can't replace.

When it comes to people I don't know, especially on the phone services thingies, I don't as a rule much mind them calling me Edward - but I do appreciate a "Mr Marlowe" followed by a polite request as to whether I mind them using my first name. I don't remember ever saying no, but I always appreciate the ask. Same with students. I also don't mind students preferring to address me more formally if that's what they are culturally more comfortable doing.

 

[tonyb]

It’s happening again …

Several major news outlets are reporting today that recent polling says 25 percent of those polled BELIEVE such-and-such a thing.

Dang, people, neither the pollsters nor the reporters nor the headline writers are mind readers. They can’t possibly know what people believe. They can accurately report what people SAY they believe, and I’d have more respect for all concerned if they were more mindful of that distinction.

 

[Trenchfriend]

Just another thing. Remember, when I mentioned my shopping trolleys?

I still can just recommend it. Such a simple, wonderful thing. And I still can recommend to have a smaller and a bigger one! Mine are 33kg and 50kg max.
With these two, I finally switched to Großeinkäufen (bulk purchases) and I love it! I will NEVER go back, I tell you!

I usually take the bigger one for bulk purchase, but when I have to get special stuff out of band, I take the smaller one. And I think, it's not bad to be redundant with these two. But actually, they never failed.

And the funny thing for me about it, is still, that you can get really nice-looking ones.

 

[LizzieMaine]

"Figures don't lie, but liars figure."

In a world where what purports to be public opinion is so freely and easily manipulated according to the agenda of whoever is paying for the data, I've long since stopped reading, believing, or caring about polls. There has always been a streak of boys-from-marketing nonsense about the process of "determining public opinion" -- see the 1936 Literary Digest presidential poll for one egregious example -- but since the Internet, it's gotten epically worse, especially with the proliferation of polling templates that make it possible for every fuming neckbeard on Reddit to come up with "statistics" to support their arguments. Statistics that are bought and paid for are not statistics at all.

 

[FOXTROT LAMONT]

"Figures don't lie, but liars figure."

In a world where what purports to be public opinion is so freely and easily manipulated according to the agenda of whoever is paying for the data, I've long since--

How do you see journalism today?