So trivial, yet it really ticks you off.

[Trenchfriend]

Hey, department-store, I don't want a suede-blouson! Brown is absolutely fine, but please offer me a classic jacket-cut for the same price!

 

[Fading Fast]

Lennon was a huge fan of the Marx Brothers. He said he actually liked the Monkees because they reminded him of the Marx Brothers. He actually got the Monkees and enjoyed it or what it was.

Has anyone tried to watch those Monkey TV shows in reruns? I find them "unwatchably" boring - other than when a good song comes on as I thought some of their music was quite good pop stuff. I'd like to find the shows funny in an ironic or of-the-period manner, but I don't and can't even sit through an episode.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I've always been intrigued by the odd mix of personalities on that show. You had the teen heartthrob, the goofy misfit, the seen-it-all cynic, and the guy in the funny hat who seems like he's wandered in from another dimension. You could mix precisely that blend of character types and come up with a format for just about any other genre of program. Imagine "Homicide - Life On The Street" as done by the Monkees, and it would actually work. Or any version of Star Trek. Or a spaghetti western. Or a twenty-first century mumblecore ensemble picture directed by Noah Baumbach.

 

[GHT]

I think the best way to introduce kids to art is not tell them it's art, and don't, under any circumstances, try to tell them it's "good for them." Just expose them to it as casually as you'd put a bowl of corn flakes in front of them, and see if they take to it.

Exactly so Lizzie. At school Shakespeare came over as stodgy and was only endured because it was compulsory. However we were lucky enough to have a forward thinking English teacher, who took our class to an afternoon matinee to see Othello. At the end of the play we were told to remain in our seats. Once the audience had left, the cast came back out on stage. We all filled up the front row and engaged with the cast about both the play, and Shakespeare in general, for at least an hour. From that day on I have had a love of the Bard. I can't recall how I 'got' Shakespeare, but it suddenly seemed to make sense, even the Old English was no longer a barrier.

 

[LizzieMaine]

*Still have no idea how the name is pronounced. I've heard several versions.

After we had a particularly ripe movie version some years ago, we agreed it was "Anna Kareninny."

 

[tonyb]

Lennon was a huge fan of the Marx Brothers. He said he actually liked the Monkees because they reminded him of the Marx Brothers. He actually got the Monkees and enjoyed it or what it was.

Consider the great pop songwriters in that stable -- Carole King and Neil Diamond among them -- and it's no surprise that act found an audience. A good half dozen or more of the tunes are still worth a listen. And "the Monkees" contributions in the studio were limited to the vocals. The instrumentalists were all first-call LA studio pros -- the bunch that came to be known as the Wrecking Crew.

 

[Trenchfriend]

*Still have no idea how the name is pronounced. I've heard several versions.

With long vocals:

Anna "Kareeniinaa".

 

[Trenchfriend]

After we had a particularly ripe movie version some years ago, we agreed it was "Anna Kareninny."

LOVE THAT!!

 

[tonyb]

Exactly so Lizzie. At school Shakespeare came over as stodgy and was only endured because it was compulsory. However we were lucky enough to have a forward thinking English teacher, who took our class to an afternoon matinee to see Othello. At the end of the play we were told to remain in our seats. Once the audience had left, the cast came back out on stage. We all filled up the front row and engaged with the cast about both the play, and Shakespeare in general, for at least an hour. From that day on I have had a love of the Bard. I can't recall how I 'got' Shakespeare, but it suddenly seemed to make sense, even the Old English was no longer a barrier.

I suspect the problem youngsters on this side of the pond have with Shakespeare is that early form of Modern English. It's not the same Modern English they speak, and is all but unintelligible, initially.

In a book on my reference shelf is a lengthy list of expressions still in everyday use which were penned by the Bard. People who don't "get" Shakespeare might be well served by being introduced to that list and to discussions on the themes in the plays. They will "get" that, almost surely. And their curiosity might be sufficiently piqued to prompt them to dig a little deeper.

 

[Edward]

Has anyone tried to watch those Monkey TV shows in reruns? I find them "unwatchably" boring - other than when a good song comes on as I thought some of their music was quite good pop stuff. I'd like to find the shows funny in an ironic or of-the-period manner, but I don't and can't even sit through an episode.

I grew up with the reruns of the Monkees in the early eighties and loved them then. They repeated them all in 97 at the time of the 30th Anniversary tour (the only reunion they ever did with all four original members; I saw them in Belfast), and I still enjoyed them then. Actually, I enjoyed them in a different way as a lot of the anarchic humour which they indulged in was lost on me as a kid, as well as some of the gags, like Peter's "Everybody does it!" think bubble when he steals the towels from the hotel in the first episode). Not seen it since 97, would love to revisit.

Apparently large chunks of the plot of each show would be improvised. If the boys liked a guest player, they'd let them in on the plot. I they din't, they wouldn't....

Exactly so Lizzie. At school Shakespeare came over as stodgy and was only endured because it was compulsory. However we were lucky enough to have a forward thinking English teacher, who took our class to an afternoon matinee to see Othello. At the end of the play we were told to remain in our seats. Once the audience had left, the cast came back out on stage. We all filled up the front row and engaged with the cast about both the play, and Shakespeare in general, for at least an hour. From that day on I have had a love of the Bard. I can't recall how I 'got' Shakespeare, but it suddenly seemed to make sense, even the Old English was no longer a barrier.

The biggest problem with the teaching of dramatic works in the UK is the focus on reading the text as if a novel, out of context... it's a bit like playing someone the soundtrack of a musical and treating that as if they'd seen the show. Engaging with performance is the only real way of dealing with it.

Consider the great pop songwriters in that stable -- Carole King and Neil Diamond among them -- and it's no surprise that act found an audience. A good half dozen or more of the tunes are still worth a listen. And "the Monkees" contributions in the studio were limited to the vocals. The instrumentalists were all first-call LA studio pros -- the bunch that came to be known as the Wrecking Crew.

The first two albums the Monkees did vocals only, but that changed; Mickey Dolenz is very clear that the band themselves played "every F**king note" on their third album. Peter and Mike were, of course, already accomplished musicians when they started, while Davy and Mickey both had musical theatre backgrounds. Mickey became at least as competent a drummer as Ringo. Certainly there's fluff in their songbook, but Daydream Believer and I'm a Believer, to name but two, are the equivalent of anything anyone else recorded. To name but one track they wrote themselves, Nesmith's Mary, May is a great track.

The Wrecking Crew, of course, also ghosted for the Beach Boys on many of their classic recordings when Brian Wilson couldn't get the sound he wanted with his own band.

 

[tonyb]

I grew up with the reruns of the Monkees in the early eighties and loved them then. They repeated them all in 97 at the time of the 30th Anniversary tour (the only reunion they ever did with all four original members; I saw them in Belfast), and I still enjoyed them then. Actually, I enjoyed them in a different way as a lot of the anarchic humour which they indulged in was lost on me as a kid, as well as some of the gags, like Peter's "Everybody does it!" think bubble when he steals the towels from the hotel in the first episode). Not seen it since 97, would love to revisit.

Apparently large chunks of the plot of each show would be improvised. If the boys liked a guest player, they'd let them in on the plot. I they din't, they wouldn't....



The biggest problem with the teaching of dramatic works in the UK is the focus on reading the text as if a novel, out of context... it's a bit like playing someone the soundtrack of a musical and treating that as if they'd seen the show. Engaging with performance is the only real way of dealing with it.



The first two albums the Monkees did vocals only, but that changed; Mickey Dolenz is very clear that the band themselves played "every F**king note" on their third album. Peter and Mike were, of course, already accomplished musicians when they started, while Davy and Mickey both had musical theatre backgrounds. Mickey became at least as competent a drummer as Ringo. Certainly there's fluff in their songbook, but Daydream Believer and I'm a Believer, to name but two, are the equivalent of anything anyone else recorded. To name but one track they wrote themselves, Nesmith's Mary, May is a great track.

The Wrecking Crew, of course, also ghosted for the Beach Boys on many of their classic recordings when Brian Wilson couldn't get the sound he wanted with his own band.

The Wrecking Crew are on hundreds (at least) of pop tunes. Brian Wilson knew all too well the limitations of his brothers and that conniving cousin of his, so while the Boys were out touring he sought out the best players he could find. On a couple of CDs I have around here are recordings of Brian in the studio putting together a couple-three or four tunes -- "Wouldn't it Be Nice" and "Good Vibrations" among them. It's a revelation.

 

[tonyb]

I once worked with a fellow who figured that the title of Best Rock Band Ever was rightly a contest between The Village People and Sha Na Na.

I thought he was pulling my leg, but no, he was serious.

 

[Zombie_61]

...Mickey became at least as competent a drummer as Ringo...

I can't say I agree with this. Mickey Dolenz might have become a proficient drummer, but at the time he was cast in The Monkees he was primarily known as an actor. Ringo was a drummer and musician by choice, and was a better drummer if for no other reason than it was his primary career and he had more experience playing both live and in the studio.

 

[Inkstainedwretch]

Exactly so Lizzie. At school Shakespeare came over as stodgy and was only endured because it was compulsory. However we were lucky enough to have a forward thinking English teacher, who took our class to an afternoon matinee to see Othello. At the end of the play we were told to remain in our seats. Once the audience had left, the cast came back out on stage. We all filled up the front row and engaged with the cast about both the play, and Shakespeare in general, for at least an hour. From that day on I have had a love of the Bard. I can't recall how I 'got' Shakespeare, but it suddenly seemed to make sense, even the Old English was no longer a barrier.

Beowulf is Old English. Chaucer is Middle English. Shakespeare is modern English. The problem is he wrote in late 16th Century courtly verse. I think this is why high schools usually teach "MacBeth" and "Julius Caesar" - very little of the obscure versifying in those two. Most of the dialogue reads like straight modern English. The worst thing you can do is hand a kid a copy of "King Lear," then try to explain what that Jester is actually saying.

 

[LizzieMaine]

That's a big part of the reason why Orson Welles' modern-dress Fascist-satire version of Caesar worked so well, and why it's so rare nowadays to see an actual version of the play done in a traditional Roman setting. We screened a National Theatre version last week which offered a rather ripped-from-Twitter modern-day version of the show, which opened with a furious heavy-metal overture. It's probably the first time a rage-cooked version of "We're Not Gonna Take It" has ever opened any Shakespeare production, and I'm afraid some of our timorous old white ladies will never quite trust our advertising again.

 

[GHT]

Beowulf is Old English. Chaucer is Middle English. Shakespeare is modern English. The problem is he wrote in late 16th Century courtly verse. I think this is why high schools usually teach "MacBeth" and "Julius Caesar" - very little of the obscure versifying in those two. Most of the dialogue reads like straight modern English. The worst thing you can do is hand a kid a copy of "King Lear," then try to explain what that Jester is actually saying.

I take your point exactly about old English middle English and modern English. What I meant and what I said is probably ambiguous. Look at my signature:
"Expectation is the root of all heartache."
That of course is modern English, but the expression is no longer in use. Heartache, of course, wasn't around in The Bard's day, what he actually said was:
"Oft expectation fails, and most oft there where most it promises.", it's a quotation from All's Well That Ends Well.
What I didn't expand on was how the cast opened our eyes. They not only explained that many a work, be it a play, musical, TV program, song or anything else was inspired by Shakespeare, but also that the Bard, with clever use of conjugation, was the forerunner of English, dropping the verb endings, that Latin & Saxon languages have. He didn't drop the second person singular, as in thou, but his verb ending omissions played a big part in the demise of thee, thou & thine.

Furthermore, the actors, discussing Othello in particular, asked if we knew of any modern plays, books or plots that might be inspired by Othello. Tentatively, I suggested Jeeves & Wooster. Jeeves being the modern day Iago, scheming, dubious and mendacious, to Wooster being, in modern parlance: A twit, someone of agitation caused by nervous excitement. But a wealthy twit, that Jeeves takes every opportunity to fleece. The cast all laughed and I thought they were laughing at my ignorance, but no. They said it was a very good analogy, not one that sprang to mind. Then I was told that PG Woodhouse was well read in Shakespeare, and a great fan.

Perhaps it was that praise that went to my head, but it did open my eyes to Shakespeare.

That's a big part of the reason why Orson Welles' modern-dress Fascist-satire version of Caesar worked so well, and why it's so rare nowadays to see an actual version of the play done in a traditional Roman setting. We screened a National Theatre version last week which offered a rather ripped-from-Twitter modern-day version of the show, which opened with a furious heavy-metal overture. It's probably the first time a rage-cooked version of "We're Not Gonna Take It" has ever opened any Shakespeare production, and I'm afraid some of our timorous old white ladies will never quite trust our advertising again.

In the modern version of Romeo & Juliet, Leonardo Dicaprio says, when someone pulls out a huge, great, chromium plated magnum: "Put up thy broadsword." Cracked me up.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I never knew I desperately wanted a version of "Othello" featuring Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie, but I really, really do.

 

[GHT]

I never knew I desperately wanted a version of "Othello" featuring Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie, but I really, really do.

Would you make do with Troilus & Cressida?
http://yourbard.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/shakespeare-masterclass-with-stephen.html

 

[ChiTownScion]

Has anyone tried to watch those Monkey TV shows in reruns? I find them "unwatchably" boring - other than when a good song comes on as I thought some of their music was quite good pop stuff. I'd like to find the shows funny in an ironic or of-the-period manner, but I don't and can't even sit through an episode.

Couldn't stand the Monkees when it was first broadcast and when my sixth grade peers were into it. Thought it was childish, and would rather spend my time listening to Bob Dylan and Frank Zappa & the Mothers.

Imagine my surprise when a classmate informed me that Zappa had been a guest on the show.

 

[vitanola]

I once worked with a fellow who figured that the title of Best Rock Band Ever was rightly a contest between The Village People and Sha Na Na.

Sounds about right to me!

It's all awful to my ears.

Perhaps he just didn't like rock.

Or was tone deaf

Or an afficianado of Norwegian Death Metal.