Sleeveless Sheepskin AirCrew jackets

[Windsock]

Irvin waistcoat

I bought this interesting piece recently, not to wear but really just for interest/research sake as I had heard of them before but had never seen one.

It's a waistcoat with many similar details to the actual jacket but is light weight (the fleece is about 50% lighter and shorter than a pre-war Irvin). I have no doubts that this jacket was made by one of the irvin Contractors but unfortunately as usual there are no labels or other distinguishing features.

It's in remarkable condition without any damage (other than the usual smell which reminds me of old pipe tobacco). The surface is almost sueded, although I suspect it originally had a surface like a standard Irvin, and the seams are constructed exactly the same as an Irvin with raw edged cowhide strips. The main zipper is an early Lightning, although it is a dainty little thing, about 2/3 normal size and it works perfectly. The edges are trimmed with more cowhide piping. It's quite a good size, fits me (46) with a long T shirt but these were designed to be worn over service or battle dress.

I have been told by a coastal command Beaufighter pilot that they were issued these for use in dallachy Scotland, and here's a picture of the CO of 455 Sqn Colin milson wearing something similar- although his appears to have a collar (may be a scarf) and waist gussets.

If anyone has any further info please post it.

Overlaid on a pre-war Irvin for size comparison.

Comparison between Irvin zip on left and waistcoat on right.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Yes I've seen these before. I was told that they were issued postwar as that was when the owner was issued with his, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were'nt first issued during the war.

Coincidentally, last week I acquired a Radley 'bike jacket in VG condition with an almost identical Lightning zip, but without the 'Made in England' casting on the reverse. The zip seems to be slightly better quality than the one on the waistcoat. I would date the jacket to the 50s, but that doesn't mean that the zips weren't in use much earlier.

Alan

 

[jamespibworth@n]

It looks to very similar the ww2 dispatch riders vest, but I think they may not have been sheepskin and are a bit longer.



Could have been use by them though?

 

[Alan Eardley]

It looks to very similar the ww2 dispatch riders vest, but I think they may not have been sheepskin and are a bit longer.



Could have been use by them though?

Dispatch riders usually wore the standard munitions leather jerkin, as did artillery gun crew and RAF ground crew. That, I think, is what appears in your photo. They were longer, fastened with buttons had a higher neckline and were not sheepskin. They were 'standard issue' with workmen who delivered coal and emptied ashcans until the late 1960s! They are fairly common in surplus shops and I think Silvermans even do a reproduction!

Alan

 

[Edward]

Silverman's do indeed still have the reproduction of that jerkin in their catalogue...I'd have assumed it wouldn't be a high demadn item, but then again thre must be a sufficient market for it for them to stock it.

The Ivin waistcoat in interesting.... reminds me of the USAAF C3 vest that Aero and Eastman reproduce:

Eastman:

Aero:

(Unusually, hereas ELC items are normally a few quid more expensive, the Eastman C3 is half the price of the Aero.)

It makes logical sense that there could have been an RAF equivalent, perhaps as an extra layer underneath the jacket, or possibly even as an alternative in the summer months, allowing greater freedom of movement of the arms in a cramped fighter cockpit while still providing warmth to the torso. Wonder why noone seems to reproduce it - is it the case that there's no demand, or they don't think it worth it as it is too similar to the US item?

I've toyed with the idea of a C3 myself as an additional layer for the winter months that could be worn under a smart over coat on the way into the office on days when an Irvin might not be appropriate....

 

[Smithy]

It makes logical sense that there could have been an RAF equivalent, perhaps as an extra layer underneath the jacket, or possibly even as an alternative in the summer months, allowing greater freedom of movement of the arms in a cramped fighter cockpit while still providing warmth to the torso.

Jerkins were solely the preserve of the erks (ground crew) Edward.

 

[irvinsuit]

RAF Sheepskin Waistcoat

I can recall from reading one of the many many books that I've read on bomber command during WW2 that these waistcoats were produced by the an organisation called something like the Australian War Comforts...
They produced woolen gloves, hats and jerseys, and sheepskin mittens, waistcoats etc... If I recall correctly, there was also a Canadian War Comforts organisation as well. My guess would be that these items would be issued on a very ad hoc basis. I think that what you have there is an extremely rare piece of history, so well done you !!!

Thanks

S

I bought this interesting piece recently, not to wear but really just for interest/research sake as I had heard of them before but had never seen one.

It's a waistcoat with many similar details to the actual jacket but is light weight (the fleece is about 50% lighter and shorter than a pre-war Irvin). I have no doubts that this jacket was made by one of the irvin Contractors but unfortunately as usual there are no labels or other distinguishing features.

It's in remarkable condition without any damage (other than the usual smell which reminds me of old pipe tobacco). The surface is almost sueded, although I suspect it originally had a surface like a standard Irvin, and the seams are constructed exactly the same as an Irvin with raw edged cowhide strips. The main zipper is an early Lightning, although it is a dainty little thing, about 2/3 normal size and it works perfectly. The edges are trimmed with more cowhide piping. It's quite a good size, fits me (46) with a long T shirt but these were designed to be worn over service or battle dress.

I have been told by a coastal command Beaufighter pilot that they were issued these for use in dallachy Scotland, and here's a picture of the CO of 455 Sqn Colin milson wearing something similar- although his appears to have a collar (may be a scarf) and waist gussets.

If anyone has any further info please post it.

Overlaid on a pre-war Irvin for size comparison.

Comparison between Irvin zip on left and waistcoat on right.

 

[Aviakid]

Radley jacket

Yes I've seen these before. I was told that they were issued postwar as that was when the owner was issued with his, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were'nt first issued during the war.

Coincidentally, last week I acquired a Radley 'bike jacket in VG condition with an almost identical Lightning zip, but without the 'Made in England' casting on the reverse. The zip seems to be slightly better quality than the one on the waistcoat. I would date the jacket to the 50s, but that doesn't mean that the zips weren't in use much earlier.

Alan

Alan, is there any possibility that you could post a picture of the Radley jacket? -they made some nice pieces in the late 50s / early 60s, I have a couple of their items myself.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Alan, is there any possibility that you could post a picture of the Radley jacket? -they made some nice pieces in the late 50s / early 60s, I have a couple of their items myself.

Aviakid,

I struggle with photographs. I don't have a camera later than WW2 and it's hard to get film nowadays... I'll try to borrow a digital.

The Radley jacket is charming - some of the make-up details are really crude (e.g. the waistband seam isn't central) and the sewing wouldn't win any prizes, but overall it's 'of its time', as they say. The press-studs are (of course) Newey and the leather is probably lambskin.

BTW, my wife wants to know, is there any connection with the modern Radley Leather (of handbag fame)?

Alan

 

[Edward]

Jerkins were solely the preserve of the erks (ground crew) Edward.

Ah, so sort of like a sleeveless D1 then?

I did wonder when it possibly get cold enough to need one of those under an Irvin... lol

 

[Aviakid]

Radley

Aviakid,

I struggle with photographs. I don't have a camera later than WW2 and it's hard to get film nowadays... I'll try to borrow a digital.

The Radley jacket is charming - some of the make-up details are really crude (e.g. the waistband seam isn't central) and the sewing wouldn't win any prizes, but overall it's 'of its time', as they say. The press-studs are (of course) Newey and the leather is probably lambskin.

BTW, my wife wants to know, is there any connection with the modern Radley Leather (of handbag fame)?

Alan

Hi Alan,
without seeing the jacket I can't be sure but due to its age I would guess it is by Elizabeth Radley whose range later became Highwayman. There is no connection between Radley Handbags & Elizabeth Radley/Highwayman as Highwayman (which was incidentally owned by D Lewis), finally shut up shop around 1982 (not in the early 60s as Aero Leathers claim on their site) the Highwayman name continued in the Lewis Leathers stable of trade marks thereafter. Lambskin & Nappa were commonly used after WW2 due to their affordability to the mass market, sadly these jackets didn't last very well as the leather was often semi-chrome tanned and the outer layer peeled away without regular feeding! But some of the heavy nappa used in early-ish Lewis Leathers & Highwayman jackets has a fantastic character about it.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Thanks - we have discussed Elizabeth Radley and the early days of Highwayman before. I wondered if the modern Radley Leather was a descendant. 'Fantastic character' would certainly describe the leather on the Radley "Service" label jacket I just found.

I used to own a Highwayman (D Lewis era) leather suit. It was fantastic.

Alan

Hi Alan,
without seeing the jacket I can't be sure but due to its age I would guess it is by Elizabeth Radley whose range later became Highwayman. There is no connection between Radley Handbags & Elizabeth Radley/Highwayman as Highwayman (which was incidentally owned by D Lewis), finally shut up shop around 1982 (not in the early 60s as Aero Leathers claim on their site) the Highwayman name continued in the Lewis Leathers stable of trade marks thereafter. Lambskin & Nappa were commonly used after WW2 due to their affordability to the mass market, sadly these jackets didn't last very well as the leather was often semi-chrome tanned and the outer layer peeled away without regular feeding! But some of the heavy nappa used in early-ish Lewis Leathers & Highwayman jackets has a fantastic character about it.

 

[PADDY]

Please keep this Irvin Sheepskin Jackets (with sleeves..etc)

The sheepskin waistcoat has now got a thread all of its own. I know how these things can take a life of their own when we all get enthusiastic, but I'm trying to keep each thread ON TARGET and clutter free. Just helps all of us when reading through on specific topics.

Thanks for understanding gents, and hope this editing helps!

 

[Aviakid]

Radley

Thanks - we have discussed Elizabeth Radley and the early days of Highwayman before. I wondered if the modern Radley Leather was a descendant. 'Fantastic character' would certainly describe the leather on the Radley "Service" label jacket I just found.

I used to own a Highwayman (D Lewis era) leather suit. It was fantastic.

Alan

I haven't heard of the Radley "Service" label before, now I'm really intrigued!
I have seen a label with the words "United Services" on it before now, on mens short casual leather jackets which were almost certainly 50's era, probably early - mid, any connection I wonder?

 

[Alan Eardley]

I haven't heard of the Radley "Service" label before, now I'm really intrigued!
I have seen a label with the words "United Services" on it before now, on mens short casual leather jackets which were almost certainly 50's era, probably early - mid, any connection I wonder?

I'd never hear of it before either. I'm at work now and I can't remember exactly what it says. I eschew the evil computer at home, so I'll look up what is on the label and we'll revisit this on Monday.

Alan

 

[Alan Eardley]

1950s British Bike jacket.

Well, OK Tuesday. It's that sort of week.

The label is about 2" by 3" embroidered in red on buff artificial silk says:
LONDON MADE

The SERVICE

Radley Leather Coat Co Ltd.

The lining is a sort of blue (presumably) artificial silk with an irridescent sheen. Aero used to use avery similar lining for their 'bike jackets in the early days.

An interesting jacket - the collar is more 'pointy' than many I've seen.

Alan

 

[Edward]

Does anyone on the lounge actually have one of the ELC repros of these sleeveless sheepskins? How practical a garment are they?

Was this sort of ground-crew wear just not produced in the same quantites as Irvins, or is there soem other reason that so few have survived? Did they, for instance, get subjected to much harsher conditions in use by ground crew than a pilot's Irvin?

 

[Alan Eardley]

Does anyone on the lounge actually have one of the ELC repros of these sleeveless sheepskins? How practical a garment are they?

Was this sort of ground-crew wear just not produced in the same quantites as Irvins, or is there soem other reason that so few have survived? Did they, for instance, get subjected to much harsher conditions in use by ground crew than a pilot's Irvin?

Edward,

ELC's repro 'Shearling Vest' is the USAAF C-3, which is similar to the one that started this thread, but different in some key areas.

I would have reservations about calling them 'ground crew wear' until more evidence of their use by the RAF comes to light. They should not be confused with the munitions jerkin that is often seen in photos of 'erks'.

Alan

 

[Edward]

Alan - yes, sorry - I should have been clearer on that, they are indeed a US item as opposed to the seemingly very rare British equivalent at the top of this thread. They do look to me that they could be a very practial garment, keeping the torso warm - therefore protecting all the major internal organs - while leaving the arms able to move much more freely. (I've recently been giving some thought to the notion of ease of movement that sleeveless garments afford the wearer in the context of differing undershirt styles, but I should think the principle is the same here...). I can see how that could be an advantage to both ground crew and pilots in cramped fighter cockpits. They certainly also look a lot more manageable than the older style jerkins. Were the jerkins a design gonig back to the Great War? I recently saw The Trench, a superb film portraying a squad(?) of men in the trenches for the last three days before gonig over the top at the start of the Battle of the Somme. Everything seemed accurate to my (limited) knowledge, and I'm sure I saw some of the men wearing a similar leather jerkin at one point.

Are there any clues as to why so few of the RAF versions have survived? Was it simply a case of late war issue (or early issue and early discontinuation) and much lower production, or were they made from shearling that simply didn't survive so well? (I do recall reading on the FL that the shearling used by the USAAF contractors in making B3s has survived less well than that used in making Irvins).

 

[Alan Eardley]

Edward,

The munitions jerkin does indeed go back to WW1.

I don't think it has been shown that a sleeveless zipped jerkin was wartime AM issue in Britain - it's not in any of the text books that I have seen, and a noted collector I know says he's never seen one.

It would be nice to establish some facts about the garment in an official AM/RAF context.

Alan