size 8-1/2 Black Mallory

[Bud-n-Texas]

Yes, that's one way to look at it. Another is that it's the way to put money in your pocket.

Hmm I do not think I could condone sniping a hat from someone who could use it, only to line my pockets. I realize there are those who have done such things through out time. That however does not justify it in my mind.

 

[Bud-n-Texas]

No need to apologize

I'm not convinced it started life as a homburg.
Certainly it's the best example of a conversion I've
ever seen, if it was. Sorry Mr. H and BinT, but those
conversions just don't work for me.

The binding doesn't go over to the other side a ways,
as it so often does in homburgs. Now you can
say that in the 20s all bets were off since the
style wasn't standardized (and indeed you can
point to my Crofut & Knapp homburg with the
Cav edge to make the point). But that would make
it non-standard as a homburg and it could just as
easily be a non-standard fedora binding.

After all, someone on this site posted a Stetson
western hat with a binding that runs on the bottom edge.

Seems to me it could very well have started as a fedora-style hat.

My favorite part is the way they had to write "8" on the
size tag 'cause they made too few to have a stamp.

What I do, I do not think of as a conversion, simply a personal touch. Some wear an OR with a cattleman's crease, some with a c-crown and others with a diamond bash. The same hat may be worn brim up or brim down depending on the person. Almost every hat has variations, even a bowler, variety is the spice of life they say. If I wore my hats and clothes just like you and so did everyone else, think how boring it would be. Like I said, no offense taken.

 

[Orgetorix]

Hmm I do not think I could condone sniping a hat from someone who could use it, only to line my pockets. I realize there are those who have done such things through out time. That however does not justify it in my mind.

I understand your feelings. However, when it's Ebay we're talking about, there's no way to know if the people you outbid would have worn it or just wanted to resell it themselves. While I dislike being outbid, I recognize people's right to do it for whatever purposes they choose.

Anyway, unless Dinerman is planning on keeping it for his personal collection, it'll eventually find its way to someone who will wear it with pride. It just may be a bit more expensive for them, and, well, with a head that size, they ought to be expecting to pay a lot.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Could very well be the only one of it's kind in that huge size,...no?
Probably a rarity even in it's own era.
What is the absolute LARGEST size that any hat maker ever produced?
Anyone know?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The binding doesn't go over to the other side a ways,
as it so often does in homburgs.

I respectfully disagree with your disagreement. The grosgrain binding does go over to the other side enough for it to have been a homburg, as can be seen in this shot.

The 1920s and '30s homburgs that I own do not have particularly wide bindings. (In fact, I just measured the binding on my 1930s black Mallory homburg: it's about 1/2" wide, just like Dinerman's.)

Also, on Dinerman's hat, the stitching on the top of the brim's edge is identical to the stitching found on homburgs ... and in the exact same location. Conclusion? It's a homburg.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Hmm I do not think I could condone sniping a hat from someone who could use it, only to line my pockets.

The key word here is "could." How can I determine whether my competition wants the hat to wear, or if he/she wants it to resell?
Fact is, I can't know a fellow bidder's ultimate intentions. Therefore, there's nothing to stop me from trying to sniping the hat from him/her ... or vice-versa.

.

 

[Bud-n-Texas]

I understand your feelings. However, when it's Ebay we're talking about, there's no way to know if the people you outbid would have worn it or just wanted to resell it themselves. While I dislike being outbid, I recognize people's right to do it for whatever purposes they choose.

Anyway, unless Dinerman is planning on keeping it for his personal collection, it'll eventually find its way to someone who will wear it with pride. It just may be a bit more expensive for them, and, well, with a head that size, they ought to be expecting to pay a lot.

I had no bid on the hat, so from a personnel standpoint, it did not effect me, other than feeding this frenzy and higher priced hats. The fact that the hat is already on the classified section, stands on its own merits. I will say this, if I had been the one sniped, in the last seconds only for resale, I would not be happy about it. There is enough competition for the hats on ebay as is, without such behavior. I look at it sort of like a buffet, take all you want, but eat all you take.

 

[feltfan]

Marc, I defer to your collection.

B-in-T, they're your hats and I can certainly see your point.
One of the pleasures of vintage hats is customizing them to your taste.

Regarding the rest of the controversy, I'm a little surprised
to hear all this fussing about someone buying low and selling higher.
We all buy from vintage clothing stores or antique shops, right? That is, except for
those of us with exceptional luck in thrift stores. What do you think
the eBay seller has done to get the hat? Even the guy at the
fleamarket had to buy low and sell higher. I'm probably the least
capitalistic person on this site, but if Dinerman wants to start a
vintage haberdashery, puts in the time and effort to track down
the deals, and can provide product at a price people will pay,
that's business. Auctions go to the highest bidder, regardless.
Personally, I am sometimes glad to pay for the seller's efforts to
seek out a good bargain and make it easy for me to find and buy.

Now if you want to build an economic system based on justice or
the needs of the individual instead of the capitalist system which is
inherently unfair, I'd be glad to talk. Well, at least till
you got to the part where I have to give up my hat collection...

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Marc, I defer to your collection.

B-in-T, they're your hats and I can certainly see your point.

Cheers, Feltfan! I do think that homburgs can be made into fine-looking fedoras. The brim requires a lot of repetitive steaming and uncurling, but the results can be great.

.

 

[Bud-n-Texas]

Marc, I defer to your collection.

B-in-T, they're your hats and I can certainly see your point.
One of the pleasures of vintage hats is customizing them to your taste.

Regarding the rest of the controversy, I'm a little surprised
to hear all this fussing about someone buying low and selling higher.
We all buy from vintage clothing stores or antique shops, right? That is, except for
those of us with exceptional luck in thrift stores. What do you think
the eBay seller has done to get the hat? Even the guy at the
fleamarket had to buy low and sell higher. I'm probably the least
capitalistic person on this site, but if Dinerman wants to start a
vintage haberdashery, puts in the time and effort to track down
the deals, and can provide product at a price people will pay,
that's business. Auctions go to the highest bidder, regardless.
Personally, I am sometimes glad to pay for the seller's efforts to
seek out a good bargain and make it easy for me to find and buy.

Now if you want to build an economic system based on justice or
the needs of the individual instead of the capitalist system which is
inherently unfair, I'd be glad to talk. Well, at least till
you got to the part where I have to give up my hat collection...

While I disagree, at the very least, they should not be hawked on the hats section. They should stay in the classifieds as that is what it was from the beginning, in my opinion. This is not the fist time, but it should be the last.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

While I disagree, at the very least, they should not be hawked on the hats section.

You have a point there. But I'm not sure that Dinerman was necessarily "hawking" his hat in that section. Seems more like he was just showing it to us as a curiosity, and maybe asking us for opinions about it. The decision to sell it via the classified section may have come to him afterward. (And he could just have easily chosen to sell it on eBay instead.)


.

 

[Bud-n-Texas]

If I am wrong I apologize

You have a point there. But I'm not sure that Dinerman was necessarily "hawking" his hat in that section. Seems more like he was just showing it to us as a curiosity, and maybe asking us for opinions about it. The decision to sell it via the classified section may have come to him afterward. (And he could just have easily chosen to sell it on eBay instead.)


.

To quote the opening post on this thread "I stuck a bid in on this last night, purely out of curriosity, and ended up winning it. I feel a little bit bad about getting it, as it is nowhere near the size I wear."
Look at the times, it was sniped. Two bids in the closing seconds. Add to that, it reminds me of Brer Rabbit and the don't throw me in that briar patch routine.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

You're right, Bud. Clearly, Dinerman's decision to sell the hat didn't come afterward. But it's a matter of conjecture as to whether he showed the hat in the "Hats" section in order to hawk it. I'm not convinced that this was Dinerman's intention, but it could well have been. Only he knows for sure.

.

 

[Orgetorix]

More than one person here makes a habit of buying nice stuff they can't wear and selling it for a profit so that they are then able to afford things they can wear.

 

[Orgetorix]

I think the size of the hat alone justifies exhibiting it in the Hats section, as large sizes are rare and this is much discussed (and much lamented) on this board.

And Dinerman hasn't said anything about selling the hat in this thread, thus he isn't hawking it here. Too, if you look at his post in the Classifieds, he's said he'd rather it go to someone on this board than put it up on Ebay where he could probably get more money for it.

 

[Dinerman]

If you'd rather me take it down from classifieds where I was going to let it go for a reasonable price, let me know. I could always stick it up on ebay, but I wouldn't feel right about doing that.

I really did buy this hat out of curriosity, as I had never seen an 8-1/2, and doubt I ever will see one again.

I don't buy hats to make money, I buy hats because I enjoy them, and I wear them. This one was just too unusual to pass up.

I'm sorry if I caused anyone trouble by buying this hat, and I'm sorry if I caused any distress by posting what I thought was an interesting find.

As far as your claims of me sniping this hat, if you look, the auction ended at 00:49:18 PST on March 8th. I bid at 13:56:04 PST on March 7th, found I had been outbid, and about ten seconds later entered a higher bid. There are hours between my bids and the end of the auction. No one else bid in these hours. How do you possibly reason this is this sniping?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Personally, I think that you're doing Fedora Loungers a favor by offering it to them in the classifieds, as opposed to eBay. Frankly, you'd probably get a higher price for it on eBay: your potential market there is huge.

.

 

[Chanfan]

Yeah, I don't see this is an issue - at least for me. Certainly, in an ideal world, I'd rather that only folks intending to use/wear an item bid on it, but that's not how it works.

And indeed, while it's potentially to my detriment for an auction where they are directly competing with me, it could be to my benefit, as well. What if they have the time / know the tricks or search terms that I don't, and can find good hats, in my size, that I can't? If they buy it and post it here for sale, it's better than me not finding it at all, isn't it?

Another effect of higher ebay prices is, increased demand, besides driving prices up, should also do a bit for supply. If you know you can sell that old hat for $50, you're more likely to put it up on ebay and less likely to toss it. Of course, vintage is a finite resource, so that also has an effect.

I guess it's all a matter of degrees, really, and different folks will have different views, of course. One extreme might be, hey, I don't have any, or just a few hats - shouldn't some of the folks with 60 or more be "forced" to sell some to folks like me at cost? At the other end, one could be following discussions on what some well-heeled member wants, outbidding him for things he bids on, and then offering to sell them to him at a profit.

Somewhere in between, of course, is the answer. Just a question of where.