Simmons Bilt. Which leather?

[oskar]

Hello everyone ...

I will get my first "real" leather jacket. It will be a black cafe racer from simmons bilt.
However, I am not sure which leather I should pick.

1. What is our experience with the clayton black horsehide or the clayton vintage black?
2. What do you think about the modena hh or the monza hh?

Thanks for the help

 

[jacketjunkie]

Clayton and Monza are SB-exclusive leathers and fairly new ones, too. You may have difficulties finding someone owning a jacket made from these and even if you do find someone, it's unlikely he can provide you with information on how it ages.

I'd go with Horween or Shinki, both are time-tested and well-loved around here.

 

[oskar]

I am looking for a jacket that i can wear in warmer environments as well. I am worried that Horween could be too warm. The goatskin looks nice, I am not sure how it compares to shinki.

 

[AeroFan_07]

Horween CXL Steer and Horse will not be to warm, having a couple of each. Not a lot of fans around here for the brand you are reffering to, I'd encouage some shopping around.

 

[ton312]

I had a Clayton CR and promptly returned it. I didn't care for the feel of the hide whatsoever. Horween's CXL hides are my favorite, Shinki has it's fair share of fans as well. As Randy pointed out SB is far from popular around here. A bit of reading will help you understand why.
They do make a fine jacket, material and craftsmanship all top notch and some really nice examples, including my own have been shown here....it may take some mental gymnastics to wear one. I wrestled with it. Especially if you are like me and have bought from a variety of makers thinking "it's just a jacket". The reality is...it's not. Not trying to poo poo your choice. I've owned many SB jackets and probably posted the most inflammatory review/comparison on the board.
My advice would simply be to fully read the history of this company and understand their roots. Perhaps you have done this already and if so, I apologize for the marginally helpful(?) post.

 

[Edward]

Horween CXL Steer and Horse will not be to warm, having a couple of each. Not a lot of fans around here for the brand you are reffering to, I'd encouage some shopping around.

I'm still a big fan of the CXL FQHH from Horween. Unless I picked it up wrong, the Horween hides that SB get, both steer and fqhh, are not the CXL but something different. I'm not up to date on their other offerings, hide-wise, as I prefer to shop elsewhere. As a general rule, though, if you're looking for a lighter hide, goat is a very good choice: light, but tough - durable. If you want a hide that shows more patina faster than goat, a medium weight horse like Vicenza would be a good choice also.

 

[zebedee]

SB's seal goat is a really great hide (I got a custom 70s car coat done in it). I'm currently expecting an Aero in dark seal goat.

 

[oskar]

I heard about their history. Not a big fan. Can you recommend any other jacket makers? The problem I have is that I am a student and I only have a limited budget :/

 

[oskar]

SB has a different kind of horsehide, but someone wrote that it looks similiar to the cxl. It is 3oz.

 

[AeroFan_07]

Wow, looking at a jacket like this while a student, that's cool! Take a look at our classifieds here, CR's come up all the time. What size/dimensions are you? Maybe someone here has a good one for a good price for you that's already broken in.

 

[jacketjunkie]

Yeah, keep an eye on the Classifieds and ebay.. the Aero CR and BR are very popular styles and come up used quite often at very affordable prices.

 

[Thuggee]

Email SB and ask for some swatches of the leathers / types ( mid / heavy black ect)your interested in they will be glad to oblige - it’s your money spend it where you like and don’t let others influence you SB make good quality jackets without a doubt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I would recommend against Simmons Bilt as well. Aero are a similar price as are Thedi. Lewis Leathers and Vanson Leathers are even lower price and are great as well.

 

[nick123]

Try being a student and a tutor at the same time. It will drive you somewhat mad.

 

[Woodyear]

I can recommend Simmons Bilt in good conscience, they're really nice people and they produce a good product at a great price.

I've handled samples of the leathers you asked about but never a full jacket.

The Modena seemed plasticy and cheap to me and I ruled it out right away.

The Monza was smooth and waxy and reminded me of an even waxier chromexcel fqhh, I liked it in brown a lot but in black the waxiness gave it a kind of grey fogged over color that I didn't like.

The Clayton is really nice, it's thick and much more rigid than I would have thought. I'd definitely chose the antique veg tanned Clayton over the chrome tanned or the smooth black clayton if my memory serves me correctly. The antique brown Clayton is one of the nicest leathers I've seen, in black it was also nice but not as nice as the brown which is full aniline and shows so much character.

I wasnt as impressed with the Shinki as I thought I'd be, it's so hyped up I figured it would be transcendent. It just seemed like a nice regular leather to me, Much softer than the Clayton but showing less overall character. The grain did seem to become more prominent quickly as I bent the sample and I suspect it would be really nice after some wear. I expected the Shinki would be teacore and show through to a lighter color underneath as it wears but it was in fact dyed black all the way through, as were all the other colors I saw (unfortunately) except the horween steer.

Hope that helps!

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I can recommend Simmons Bilt in good conscience, they're really nice people and they produce a good product at a great price.

I've handled samples of the leathers you asked about but never a full jacket.

The Modena seemed plasticy and cheap to me and I ruled it out right away.

The Monza was smooth and waxy and reminded me of an even waxier chromexcel fqhh, I liked it in brown a lot but in black the waxiness gave it a kind of grey fogged over color that I didn't like.

The Clayton is really nice, it's thick and much more rigid than I would have thought. I'd definitely chose the antique veg tanned Clayton over the chrome tanned or the smooth black clayton if my memory serves me correctly. The antique brown Clayton is one of the nicest leathers I've seen, in black it was also nice but not as nice as the brown which is full aniline and shows so much character.

I wasnt as impressed with the Shinki as I thought I'd be, it's so hyped up I figured it would be transcendent. It just seemed like a nice regular leather to me, Much softer than the Clayton but showing less overall character. The grain did seem to become more prominent quickly as I bent the sample and I suspect it would be really nice after some wear. I expected the Shinki would be teacore and show through to a lighter color underneath as it wears but it was in fact dyed black all the way through, as were all the other colors I saw (unfortunately) except the horween steer.

Hope that helps!

There are different levels of Shinki just like there are different levels of chromexcel... trust me.

 

[Woodyear]

There are different levels of Shinki just like there are different levels of chromexcel... trust me.

The fact remains that all shinki leathers are only semi-aniline meaning they have been pigmented more than dyed. This means they're at least partially coated with paint and to me that's less desirable that full aniline dyed leather which uses transparent stains to show through to all the character of the hide. This really mostly only matters with colors that aren't black, but if it's gonna be black I much prefer it to be teacore so that I can still get some of that character that's otherwise missing in semi aniline leathers.

Don't get me wrong my favorite jacket is semi aniline, they are awesome leathers generally. But my favorite one is also a teacore, and without that quality a semi aniline leather won't show nearly as much patina as the others I've mentioned. Chromexcel in brown is a full aniline leather, which is why it gathers so much character with wear and has a depth of color that shinki just lacks. It's like staining a piece of wood as opposed to painting it.

With regard to your comment about "different levels of chromexcel", I'd have to say that's not entirely accurate as chromexcel hasn't changed much since they started producing it many years ago. As far as i'm aware there is only steer and fqhh chromexcel and which of those one prefers is subjective, as are the various thicknesses it can be skived down to. It would be more appropriate to say there are varying levels of "Horween" i.e. Dublin, Chromexcel, Shell Cordovan but within those products themselves the only variation should be from batch to batch and hide to hide as leather is of course a natural product and there will always be some variation.

Im sure you'll agree that Shinki isn't a type of leather but rather a tannery like Horween, so of course make different grades and types of leather as well. Apparently the one Simmons Bilt gets isn't really very inspired which is unfortunate as I really want to pick up a Shinki jacket but I'm not willing to pay japanese prices. I almost ordered a diamond dave in Shinki but at the last minute he informed me he was out of it, so I've had no luck with Shinki thus far.

 

[AeroFan_07]

So circling the wagons back around to the OP's original question. No matter what brand you select (fully your choice, no issues at all with that here) I would encourage you to concentrate upon getting the right fit above all else. It's not easy with a CR, hopefully you could find a shop where you could try on multiple jackets so you have a good idea what really works on you.

Last weekend I observed a person wearing a CR at a car auction in Iowa. This is rare. however it was 2-3 sizes too big, looked very sloppy, and was probably a Wilson's from the '90's when nearly everything was over sized. This might be a good idea to avoid.

 

[handymike]

Sizing is very important. I'd recommend trying on a lot of styles and brands to find what you like & looks good on you. Then used is a great way to go once you know your measurements. Post up pictures of jackets you think might work- we love to espause our opinions.

 

[dan_t]

Student...?
Looking for that ‘one’ jacket that’ll last you a lifetime...?

Here’s the reality; like almost everyone here, we all started the same way. We thought that we’d nail the sizing, style, features & hide type right out of the box and be done with it.

Ummm, sorry to say that it never quite works out like that. You’ll be hooked & want to tweak every little ridiculous detail from here to infinity. Resulting in many, many jackets, bloated credit card bills and arguments with your partner / other board members / dog etc.

Here’s a better idea...
Get a really good idea of your measurements first.
Buy a top level manufacturer jacket second hand.
Cruise the classifieds here, or post a 'wanted to buy' ad.
Don’t rule out eBay.

Buy a great jacket, wear it LOTS & like many here (myself incuded), flip it at the end of your first winter for the next jacket.
You'll learn many valuable insights this way (fit, style, sizing etc).

Now THAT next one will be THE perfect jacket........ surely.....?


Good luck, you’re amongst friends here (aka; enablers).