Silk Sweat Bands?

[Visigoth]

I have an extremely old Knox -- quite high-end, it seems -- that has a silk rather than leather sweat band. (It seems in fact to be precisely the same grosgrain as the ribbon.) It is, to be honest, much more comfortable than even my best leather sweat bands. I'm wondering why this never caught on?

(The sweat band has "Ovalized Sixteenths, Trade Mark" printed on it, for what it's worth.)

I live in a warm climate -- Oaxaca -- so a lighter material suits me; it could be I'd prefer a heavier leather band up north. But I'm considering having hats with damaged leather sweat bands replaced with ribbon... Thoughts?

 

[GWD]

Interesting. Maybe they don't last as long with everyday use. Maybe they used them for the higher end "Sunday go to Meetin'" hats??

Please post some pics.

 

[Lefty]

The only Knox ad I've got that mentions ovalized 16ths is from 1933. Unfortunately, this is full size.

 

[Lefty]

Sorry, I've got nothing on the silk sweat, but here are more posts on the subject of 16ths

an advertising gimmick, essentially, from what I've seen. Done by Knox, I think. Makes it sound like it's a more precise fit, but every one I've seen has been sized like regular hats, that is, by eighths.

I like stingy-brims from the 1960's but I've long wanted a real 1930's hat. This decade represents the apex of men's fashion. Looking over the posts of my fellow lounge members fueled my desire. My 7 5/8 extra long oval head seemed to be an insurmountable obstacle in my quest.
While perusing ebay, I found a poorly described and photographed hat that I took to be a typical 1960's stingy. When I received the box (it took a while to get over here to France) the first thing I noticed was the hatbox. It didn't look post-war modern to me. Then the hat. It was an unworn, cav-edge which was unbashed and in mint condition except for a bit of discoloration on the liner due to age. The brim is 2 1/4" wide and the color is a sort of black heather or smokey black. And the crown is tall! I've got my dream hat, but the proportions are so different from anything made in the last 40 or so years that I'm not sure I can successfully wear it with modern suits and coats.
The box
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/Jauntyone_2008/day071.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/Jauntyone_2008/day072.jpg
The hat unbashed
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/Jauntyone_2008/day051.jpg
On my head
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/Jauntyone_2008/day055.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/Jauntyone_2008/day056.jpg
Bashed
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/Jauntyone_2008/day057-1.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/Jauntyone_2008/day058.jpg
Wow, if it takes a crown to make a king, I can be emperor of the world! The crown height is much more dramatic in person than it appears in the pictures.
The interior
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/Jauntyone_2008/day052.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/Jauntyone_2008/day053.jpg
The felt is of course magnificent; it is both thick and incredibly malleable. It can be pushed into any shape very easily. I've had quality vintage hats before, even a nutria fedora from the 40's, but none compares in felt quality to this one. It's sized in 16ths: marked ovalized sixteenths which I gather from previous posts was just a marketing ploy. It fits my 7 5/8 head perfectly.

and there's this thread

 

[Visigoth]

Interesting -- my guess is that this hat is from the same era as that poster. The dimensions look similar, and -- like that one -- it's a fedora with a homburg-like brim: turned up all around, and quite dramatically curled.

I flattened the brim to make it into a more traditional fedora -- it's gorgeous. Will post pictures soon (of this and the fifteen or so other hats I just moved out of storage.)

 

[Visigoth]

Oops... just checked that other thread: embarrassingly enough, it's *my* thread, from ages ago. (Forgot that I'd posted this). So there are pictures of the earlier version of this hat. To flatten the brim, I had to remove the edge trim -- it wouldn't stretch out enough.

It's now one of the nicest hats I own. In fact, my better Dobbs and Knox hats easily hold their own with my Borsalinos.

 

[Dewhurst]

If I'm reading the original post correctly (and I'm not sure that I am) then you are asking why grosgrain/silk sweatbands haven't caught on more?

A small number of quality hats are made today with grosgrain sweatbands, usually fur felt hats that are crushable (where leather becomes impractical). Like the Christy's foldaway. Many flat caps have grosgrain sweatbands. Grosgrain sweatbands are popular in inexpensive hats as well, but it can be hard to find it in good felt hats like the Christy's.

Cotton Twill sweatbands can be pretty nice as well if you are looking for alternatives to leather. Some quality felt hats use cotton twill sweatbands.

 

[UWS Cowboy]

Quick question: Does the leather sweatband have anything to do with preventing the taper of a hat? For some reason I imagine the stiffness of the leather would help a hat keep its shape and from getting that cone shape. My dobbs guild edge has an old leather sweat band that will need replacing soon enough but underneath it is a plastic like band that is about two inches high, and I may just wear it with that for a while if the leather band has nothing to do with the taper of a hat.

 

[Dinerman]

1930s Knox with ovalizes sizteenths marked on the sweatband

Mid '40s stack with a grosgrain sweatband

Most of the hats I've seen with cloth sweatbands are either rollable or are more casual models.

 

[feltfan]

How well does the ribbon sweatband keep sweat from your felt?

 

[Dinerman]

How well does the ribbon sweatband keep sweat from your felt?

none too well.

 

[jamespowers]

How well does the ribbon sweatband keep sweat from your felt?

Ah, now that gets to the point. If even roan sweatbands have a thin plastic perspiration barrier behind them then we know that even they do not completely bar sweat. The ribbon or silk would be much worse. Anyone ever see an old silk just shatter to pieces? It isn't pretty and would not wear well in hats.
However, we do have precedence with women's felt hats of the period. Women's felt hats always had ribbon sweatbands. This does not equate with men's hats though because women's hats were usually not worn near the brow line as men's were. The perspiration factor was less of a problem and the need for leather I suppose made less sense. Women also likely had more hats than men and price might have been an object as well. [huh]

 

[Visigoth]

But you'd think that a ribbon with a waterproof backing would be perfect. I mean, silk may fall apart, but leather disintegrates too, sometimes very rapidly -- I've had real issues with this.

 

[RBH]

... the earliest I found was from 1933 mine in Texas. [I cant see your add Lefty]

 

[jamespowers]

But you'd think that a ribbon with a waterproof backing would be perfect. I mean, silk may fall apart, but leather disintegrates too, sometimes very rapidly -- I've had real issues with this.

I suppose it would depend on the wearer's pH but for the most part leather wins.

 

[Dewhurst]

That person with the supposedly "wide" oval head in the picture doesn't really look very wide at all. Actually looks pretty normal, and the long oval illustration looks more like an interdimendional alien skull![huh]

Good quality leather sweatbands are usually long lasting and quite comfortable, but you see many grosgrain sweatbands that last for a really long time as well. I have seen flatcaps with grosgrain sweatbands that were quite old, and the grosgrain still looked pretty good.

Most everyone on here knows a little something or other about the inability of leather to last forever. That is just what you get when you buy old hats.

For people who don't like leather sweatbands (impossible? ), at least they can still find decent felt hats with fabric bands. You just have to do some lookin'.

 

[Lefty]

There's a thread somewhere where a member described how his sweat dissolved his leather sweatbands.

 

[hatlinerman]

From Hatlinerman

I have an extremely old Knox -- quite high-end, it seems -- that has a silk rather than leather sweat band. (It seems in fact to be precisely the same grosgrain as the ribbon.) It is, to be honest, much more comfortable than even my best leather sweat bands. I'm wondering why this never caught on?

(The sweat band has "Ovalized Sixteenths, Trade Mark" printed on it, for what it's worth.)

I live in a warm climate -- Oaxaca -- so a lighter material suits me; it could be I'd prefer a heavier leather band up north. But I'm considering having hats with damaged leather sweat bands replaced with ribbon... Thoughts?

There are now many manufacturers using cloth sweat bands made out of high performance fabrics that are both comfortable and actually in some cases wick away moisture.

 

[Dinerman]

There are now many manufacturers using cloth sweat bands made out of high performance fabrics that are both comfortable and actually in some cases wick away moisture.

Where does that wicked moisture go? The point of a leather sweatband is that it doesn't wick moisture- so that sweat doesn't soak into the felt and ruin the hat.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Most of the hats I've seen with cloth sweatbands are either rollable or are more casual models.

Or they're women's hats, especially when the sweatband is grosgrain.


.