sick and tired of new scrap appliances.

[sheeplady]

So I guess for the purposes of my brief example, an AMERICAN child from the ages of 15-18 could have possibly made the $200 shoe that the corpulent Taiwanese man purchases, instead of buying a more reliable, repairable shoe. In any case, the $200 spent is still $200 wasted.

Ok. I get your point.

I think companies are so used to that nice comfy profit and the public is so used to garbage, we'll never see nice, repairable shoes come back/

 

[Noirblack]

Noir, everything you said in your response is indicative of clever marketing. Let me ask you something: have you ever personally performed laboratory tests in which you measured the lifespan of plastic in open-air landfill conditions? And if so, what was the data you obtained? Or haven't you done this? Chances are, like me, you've never done this kind of testing. So how would you know that plastic takes so long to breakdown? Marketing. PR. A problem was created by "scientists" and a solution was developed by god-sent Company X. I would say most companies rely on this ignorance in order to market their product. And listen, I'm saying you and I, and the rest of us are ignorant to some degree. Who has the ability to run exhaustive tests on everything we purchase?

I'm not going to get into wild conspiracy theories, etc., but since when did we have SO MANY problems that had such simple solutions as buying something? Since when did we need DVD players in our cars? Oh, of course, because the kids won't shut up. But were kids that loud and crazy? And weren't there any other alternatives to keeping kids quiet in the car? Makes you wonder how parents without DVD players manage to drive anywhere.

Same goes for touchscreen phones, tablets, pads, pods, and on and on. Apparently humankind were stone-headed cavemen before the advent of a handheld computer that could load Facebook in 3 seconds flat.

Or what about Nike AirJordans? What value do those offer anyone? But you can bet people are lined up every time a new shoe is released so they can fork over $200 for the latest Taiwanese child-made clodhopper. How DID anyone walk before AirJordans?

I guess I'm just as crazy as a rat in a tin outhouse because I can't find the value in these worthless pieces of crap.

Have to admit I have never done a laboratory test to measure the life span of plastics. By the same token, I have never done a double blind study to prove the efficacy of any medicine I have ever taken. There are certain types of knowledge where we rely on experts. The lifespan of plastic would be one of those areas.

You are quite correct when you say that we have lots of problems where the solution is buying something. If you tap is leaking you need a new washer in it. If your light bulb is burned out, you need to buy a new light bulb. If you run out of staples, you need to buy more of them.


You ask since when did we need DVD players in cars. Well, we don't need them, but people do want them. It makes the drive more peaceful for the parents if they don't have to turn around and break up fights between the brats in the back. Nobody needs Air Jordans either. Yet there are lots of folks who want them. I can't see anything wrong with that. Nobody should feel the need to apologizing for wanting something. We are all humans, we like stuff. What one person values, another doesn't. That is the variety that makes life interesting.

Are you trying to draw the line and say that only necessities are allowed? That just leaves us with food and water. You don't need clothes (they are just useless decoration). You don't need shelter (just sleep in a cave). You don't even need a club to go our and whack a critter dead for food. Just eat nuts and berries. If you were king of the world, just where would you draw the line between products that can be produced and those that are forbidden?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Ok. I get your point.

I think companies are so used to that nice comfy profit and the public is so used to garbage, we'll never see nice, repairable shoes come back/

This is the real problem. Trash has become the accepted social norm, because most people honestly don't have any idea that there was any other alternative. If you tell someone there was a time in living memory of some of us when shoes were designed and manufactured to be resoled and reheeled as needed, and shoe-repair shops existed in every town, they'll look at you like you have four heads. And challenge their assumption that today is the way things are "supposed" to be and they simply won't be able to comprehend what you're saying. That's why "keeping the culture of the Greatest Generation," which is the stated purpose of the Lounge, is so important -- somebody's got to keep the fire burning.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I can proudly say that I've never owned a pair of Air Jordans in my entire life.

Are you trying to draw the line and say that only necessities are allowed? That just leaves us with food and water. You don't need clothes (they are just useless decoration). You don't need shelter (just sleep in a cave). You don't even need a club to go our and whack a critter dead for food. Just eat nuts and berries. If you were king of the world, just where would you draw the line between products that can be produced and those that are forbidden?

In balance I would have to agree that some "all knowing" central authority determining what you need (and don't need) is just as bad as, if not worse, than a corporate entity determining what they want you to want. Going back to my above statement about Air Jordans, I could probably count on my fingers the things I've bought in the last 15-20 years because I saw a commercial for it or an ad in a magazine.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In an ideal world, no such authority would be needed. People would make their decisions on the basis of common sense, and nobody would think spending $200 for a pair of disposable shoes would be common sense.

 

[sheeplady]

In an ideal world, no such authority would be needed. People would make their decisions on the basis of common sense, and nobody would think spending $200 for a pair of disposable shoes would be common sense.

One of my participants had a child who wanted the Air Jordan Nikes when they came out (around about the time people were reportedly killing each other for them). They made their kid save up for them and it took them six months of doing chores around the neighborhood. First day they wore them to school, the poor kid got beat up pretty bad and they were stolen. The kid (now an adult) calls it their $100 lesson. Needless to say, they didn't ask for another pair nor get another on their own.

 

[Shangas]

If it's any consolation to Lizzie, in the next suburb from where I live, there's a shoe-repair shop. Outside is a sign that says: "Shoes Repaired - While You Wait".

"While you Wait". I've not seen that sign in front of any repairshop in ages.

I remember when I was a child, there was a clockmaker's shop down the road from my house. The old guy who worked there retired after 50 years working out of that shop. But he was very handy, and was an institution on our main road for ages.

 

[Undertow]

...There are certain types of knowledge where we rely on experts...If you tap is leaking you need a new washer in it. If your light bulb is burned out, you need to buy a new light bulb. If you run out of staples, you need to buy more of them...You ask since when did we need DVD players in cars. Well, we don't need them, but people do want them. It makes the drive more peaceful for the parents if they don't have to turn around and break up fights between the brats in the back. Nobody needs Air Jordans either. Yet there are lots of folks who want them. I can't see anything wrong with that. Nobody should feel the need to apologizing for wanting something. We are all humans, we like stuff. What one person values, another doesn't. That is the variety that makes life interesting...Are you trying to draw the line and say that only necessities are allowed? That just leaves us with food and water. You don't need clothes (they are just useless decoration). You don't need shelter (just sleep in a cave). You don't even need a club to go our and whack a critter dead for food. Just eat nuts and berries. If you were king of the world, just where would you draw the line between products that can be produced and those that are forbidden?

I agree with you here. We can't know everything. If we are going to take pills for shaky legs, or eat genetically modified crops, or wear nano-particle-sprayed clothes, we have to rely on an expert who is going to verify these things are safe. Unfortunately, that's the very weakness that some elements of society exploit to part us from our money. And as our society is lulled into a stupor and as we all tell ourselves repeatedly that "it's up to the experts", we're going to keep getting fleeced. Or worse...

I also agree that there are certain things needing replaced; e.g. light bulbs, tooth brushes, car tires, etc. And I agree that people should be able to buy whatever they want for whatever reason they see fit. But let me ask you this - if you had two light bulbs, one is ACME and the other is ZENITH and both are incandescent 60w bulbs with nearly identical packaging, and one says, "Turns on, turns off every time," and the other says, "Vacuum sealed chamber allows for varying wattage in the case of surges, tempered glass for long lasting bulb, element is heat tested by our scientists to ensure no unnecessary overheating," which one would you buy? And what if the difference in cost was only $.50? Believe me, everyone is going for the technical explanation over the generic one because it sounds like you're getting a better value. The same trick is applied to things like cell phone contracts and home computer packages.

The scariest thing is that everything you're saying to me sounds like the kind of argument I would hear from the boys in marketing when I argue that I don't need their stuff. I'm sorry I seem to be picking on you, Noir. It's not you at all. I'm sure you and I could share a beer, or a pot of tea, or a slice of pie (or whatever shiny thing that catches our eyes) and be friends. Really. It's just that PERSONALITY and ABILITY and INTERESTS and HOBBIES and PASSIONS should be the spice of life. And yes, sometimes that means material possessions become involved, like when a guy is obsessed with old cars, or a girl collects comics for 30 years. But our society is literally obsessed with THINGS rather than talents. Sure, there are television programs like American Idol where we celebrate some talented nobody, but what's the point of the show? So that "nobody" can cut a record deal and be a rockstar! Or even Antiques Roadshow, which I love to watch, is about people putting a value to their STUFF.

Yeah, it is human nature to want nice things, and to feel secure, and that is specifically what the boys in marketing feed on. It is up to us as rational consumers to know when we want something and when we "simply must have something or we'll die without it, until tomorrow when our instinct changes".

 

[Noirblack]

The scariest thing is that everything you're saying to me sounds like the kind of argument I would hear from the boys in marketing when I argue that I don't need their stuff. I'm sorry I seem to be picking on you, Noir. It's not you at all. I'm sure you and I could share a beer, or a pot of tea, or a slice of pie (or whatever shiny thing that catches our eyes) and be friends. Really. It's just that PERSONALITY and ABILITY and INTERESTS and HOBBIES and PASSIONS should be the spice of life. And yes, sometimes that means material possessions become involved, like when a guy is obsessed with old cars, or a girl collects comics for 30 years. But our society is literally obsessed with THINGS rather than talents. Sure, there are television programs like American Idol where we celebrate some talented nobody, but what's the point of the show? So that "nobody" can cut a record deal and be a rockstar! Or even Antiques Roadshow, which I love to watch, is about people putting a value to their STUFF.

Yeah, it is human nature to want nice things, and to feel secure, and that is specifically what the boys in marketing feed on. It is up to us as rational consumers to know when we want something and when we "simply must have something or we'll die without it, until tomorrow when our instinct changes".

I know you aren't picking on me. I think anyone posting on a thread should say whatever they think, and even if there is disagreement, as long as the author has put thought into it the debate/discussion is worthwhile. I think life would be pretty dull if we all agreed with each other all the time.

I do agree with you that there is a lot of focus on material goods in today's society. That topic pops up quite a bit on this forum and that is understandable because the forum is about things from the past. So eventually the items from the past get compared to today's items and some people judge today's things are worse for reasons A, B, and C, while others judge that today's things are better for reasons X,Y, and Z. As you have no doubt gathered my POV is that we just can't freeze things in time. People just tinker and change things because that is what they do.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

[video=youtube;JLoge6QzcGY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLoge6QzcGY[/video]

 

[59Lark]

The reason that this thread was started the thing that irked me, was I am a repairman, 30 years fixing sewing machines, picture of the queen in the back wall. Wooden radio playing big band, treadle sewing machines in the showroom , handcrank on the shelf. I wear a apron, fix all types of sewing machines. You think I would be rolling in business, but my community buys plastic crap at canadian tire. I cant stand all this disoposable crap, my car is 52 years old, my van is 14 but the computer caused me grief. I am beginning to feel, people are sheep and are being conditioned to buy plastic and just go get another one. I feel digusted with this age. 59Lark

 

[jamespowers]

The reason that this thread was started the thing that irked me, was I am a repairman, 30 years fixing sewing machines, picture of the queen in the back wall. Wooden radio playing big band, treadle sewing machines in the showroom , handcrank on the shelf. I wear a apron, fix all types of sewing machines. You think I would be rolling in business, but my community buys plastic crap at canadian tire. I cant stand all this disoposable crap, my car is 52 years old, my van is 14 but the computer caused me grief. I am beginning to feel, people are sheep and are being conditioned to buy plastic and just go get another one. I feel digusted with this age. 59Lark

If you lived closer I would have plenty of work for you.

 

[Shangas]

Hey Lark! Great to see you again. You should check the progress I've made with my gran's Singer. Maybe that will cheer you up?

 

[TM]

What we are seeing today is "value engineering" - which is the engineering of value out of the product.

Tony

 

[The Soph Gent]

This is the real problem. Trash has become the accepted social norm, because most people honestly don't have any idea that there was any other alternative. If you tell someone there was a time in living memory of some of us when shoes were designed and manufactured to be resoled and reheeled as needed, and shoe-repair shops existed in every town, they'll look at you like you have four heads. And challenge their assumption that today is the way things are "supposed" to be and they simply won't be able to comprehend what you're saying. That's why "keeping the culture of the Greatest Generation," which is the stated purpose of the Lounge, is so important -- somebody's got to keep the fire burning.

Well put. I agree whole heatedly regarding 'keeping the culture...'. My granddaughters(6&4) come over and love using my vintage typewriters and telephones. They are interested in the mechanical aspects of these items.
I have a 13 year old cousin who saw me purchasing a vintage phone from eBay. When she saw a photo of the old rotary phone she asked me where the buttons were? When I explained how to dial, she said "that's stupid" ... And so the education began.

If we don't keep the education going, this appreciation of the greatest era will soon die out. And then 50 years from now, the antique era will be the China junk of today.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

If we don't keep the education going, this appreciation of the greatest era will soon die out. And then 50 years from now, the antique era will be the China junk of today.

That's assuming that the Made in China crap will last fifty years.

 

[jamespowers]

That's assuming that the Made in China crap will last fifty years.

That will NEVER happen. :rofl:

 

[sheeplady]

I have a 13 year old cousin who saw me purchasing a vintage phone from eBay. When she saw a photo of the old rotary phone she asked me where the buttons were? When I explained how to dial, she said "that's stupid" ...

Wonderful. I'm glad you taught her the elegance of simplicity.

What you should say is "I remember a time when you could talk for hours on a phone without breaking up or dropping the call like happens on a cell." It's a shame that a whole generation has been misled to believe this is the quality they should expect from their services and no more.

 

[William Stratford]

That's assuming that the Made in China crap will last fifty years.

Sadly, the bloody stuff will last 500 years...just 495 of them as landfill....

 

[jamespowers]

Sadly, the bloody stuff will last 500 years...just 495 of them as landfill....

Now you hit the nail on the head there.