shrinking aero anyone?

[Big J]

We do not have an official Aero 'handle' , we would prefer all correspondence be done direct by email and not on a forum , sometimes however a little input is required.
Holly occasionally has to post , she uses 'Cloudylemonade'

Cloudylemonade, that's the one!

 

[schitzo]

Feminine type short? Vintage type short and it's the low rise skinny jeans that make it look feminine. Old discussion and nobody will force the other side to change. Just saying it is a point of view thing. It's not a set rule that after losing one inch it is defo "too short".
I think it's more that you want to get exactly what you ordered. Fair enough.

Flat Foot you talk good sense and I value your input

 

[Grayland]

This situation is getting pretty bad when Aero is notified of the "controversy" on this board and they post a response. Andy from BK would be ridiculed if he did that.

 

[schitzo]

There are many theories and speculation as to what has caused Schitzo's 'shrinking' .
Firstly tanning process , Horweens Chromexcel has been tanned in the same way since 1913 , including drying process . Another thought is a bad batch , we probably made close to 100 jackets from that batch and have no other reports of 'shrinking'. Obviously there are other theories such as pollution etc that we really can't comment on .
Creases in leather ( or any other material ) do have an affect on length , fact . There are clearly creases in the back of his jacket ( some that were hidden by fruit ) .We don't know if this was caused by simply packing once , or multiple times . Other factors could be multiple soaking and drying but we don't know the full history of the jacket , only what we have been told .

2 weeks ago Schitzo couldn't have been happier with his jacket , including the length and the leather , see Hercules post / poll ...

http://http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?79613-Repro-1930s-Sears-Original-Hercules-jackets-whose-is-best

now all of a sudden this has changed ?

If we felt there was a fault in Schitzo’s jacket we would have dealt with it in the same way we always deal with legitimate complaints
We are very proud of our exemplary customer service and always deal with problems in a 100% honest manner. This has surely been proved with the way we handled the Storse fiasco and the way we helped every single person who got caught up in Mark Moye’s “Aero USA” Ponzi fraud, although legally, we had no need to honour any transaction which was entered into with Mark Moye
If we felt Schitzo has a justified complaint we’d have dealt with it immediately, after all when he initially ordered the wrong leather in error, we offer to make a replacement jacket although it was the customer’s fault, not ours.

Dear Hide n Seek

Well, this is a bit awkward isn't it.

I thought our conversation had been concluded privately. Only then did I bring it here, because this is after all a forum for people to discuss their shared interests and clearly some people are interested in this particular topic. Suffice to say I am too ergo there isn't any reason why I shouldn't feel free to faithfully share with others my point of view and my experience.

I have not misquoted or misrepresented the aero position in any way, thus as I'm reading your words back I cannot help but feel that the tone of this comment is distasteful. For clarity, aero have an opinion and I have one - which aren't the same. I have never once insinuated that the aero opinion is dishonest or lacking integrity, nor would I. I had hoped I might be afforded the same courtesy

But to put shrinkage in inverted commas makes a statement.

And to state that you only know the history of the jacket as relayed to you by me is also unnecessary, for that much is self evident, and as such serves only to cast doubt on my honesty.

Moreover, to imply that I have used fruit to hide creases is also not nice, and frankly more than a little bit ridiculous. I merely used fruit as it was the first thing to hand and its placement was determined solely by the slack in the tape measure. If that occurred where the creases are then so be it, though for the record the fruit only partially obscures them. I also sent you a picture without any fruit, which you referred to in order to reach the conclusion that you did.. so why you are mentioning the fruit now I know not. As no doubt is blindingly obvious to anyone looking in on this I blatantly have nothing to hide, which is why I offered to show you a video of the whole thing - an offer you chose not to take me up on. Instead you gave me a diagnosis that left us with no room for the conversation to continue. Yet now if I want to talk to others here you are jumping back in? FYI I made a video this morning and from my POV I definitely would have preferred to show you that one first, alas apparently you have seen enough from the two shots (fruit and without) for that to not be necessary. However, IMHO those shots are inconclusive whereas the video on the other hand shows everything very clearly, and I do mean everything

In all honesty the amount of misinformation above does not read very well. For the record - which I now feel obliged to straighten - 2 weeks ago I preferred the aero original herc to the GW and BK versions. Today two weeks later I still do, and so the answer to the what's changed question is nothing. The length of my jacket has no bearing on this POV and is not even mentioned in that thread. Re that thread, while we're on the subject IMHO, since you brought it up, I will add that I did feel at the time and still do that you guys all coming on to vote for your own jacket was again - how shall I put this - ill advised. Once more, that's just my opinion and you may well disagree with it. I am quite certain that Sloane does.

Regarding the initial order arriving in the wrong leather that was very decent of aero to put that straight immediately as I think I mentioned publicly at the time. Though as I recall the mix up was a genuine breakdown in communication for which both parties were accountable. I never asked for Vintage nor did I ever even contemplate it. I only ever asked for Regular thus I saw no reason to check what had been written on my order in the leather choice section for in my mind there was no need to.

Let me say this. For anyone who doesn't know, Aero's customer service is much better than average. Overall I would classify it as good. But that doesn't mean that everybody's experience is good all of the time. Some people may have an excellent experience (I have been there myself) while others may have one that's less than satisfactory. Whatever the experience I think that once the customer has spoken to the manufacturer privately and that conversation has been concluded, then provided he does so in a faithful and transparent way without misrepresenting the other side he should be free to discuss it with other interested parties on here, without said maker then jumping back in to restart a conversation that was privately ended, by said maker himself. Does that sound unreasonable? I repeat, the conversation was not ended by me it was ended by the aero conclusion that left no room for it to continue. I assume aero are not on here to say that I must not talk about this publicly, in which case, please let us continue this thread in accordance with the rules of the house and on the premise that adults are allowed to respectfully disagree with each other. In other words, there is zero need for any further attempts at undermining my integrity. My understanding of tfl is that that type of thing is not welcome here. What's more let these be the last words exchanged between us publicly, for this is not good practice either

Bottom line is that sometimes the adults in this forum may have a different opinion than aero does and so long as they are just that - sincere opinions as opposed to malicious attacks (you know the type of thing, below the belt catty comments intended to disparage one maker, for examples of what I'm talking about here read Sloan on BK at any given opportunity) - then the gentleman involved ought to be free to discuss these without aero coming on to derail their conversation. I repeat, I have not misquoted or misrepresented the aero position on this matter in any way. My offer of posting a video in broad daylight for members to form their own opinion speaks for itself. I'd also like to post pictures of me wearing it new and now to help work out of if it has in fact shrunk all over and would cite this as further evidence of my good faith and transparency. IMO I think what has happened to my jacket is peculiar and accordingly that this incident is a valid talking point.

Last point. After what you've concluded behind the scenes I can see why you would feel that talking to me privately is out of the equation. Fyi, I am very approachable and very reasonable and I would respectfully advise that it isn't and that doing so would surely be preferable to any misguided attempt at spinning this dialogue away from it's natural course

Yours truly
Schitz

 

[schitzo]

This situation is getting pretty bad when Aero is notified of the "controversy" on this board and they post a response. Andy from BK would be ridiculed if he did that.

Fair comment.


Video coming soon and side by side fit pics for comparison.

Until then gents, let's please keep this thread on track and not allow it to be derailed. It's about a jacket that has shrunk and the reason/s for that happening. Any insight into HOW this may have happened is of course welcome, as is any insight into HOW such a situation may be avoided

 

[handymike]

I'm always bummed when threads begin to degenerate into a He said She said situation.

I get that creasing occurs, and jackets shorten in areas. Schitzo's was fairly short to begin with by my taste, but he thought it was perfect. It's sad that it got shorter and now his jacket experience is diminished. It would be great to get to the bottom of why this happened to his and other jackets- just so we can factor it in to future orders. These are not only expensive pieces of clothing, but we become emotionally invested as well. It sucks when jackets don't turn out the way we dream of them. Internet ordering is tricky and scary when there is a lot at stake.

 

[schitzo]

I'm always bummed when threads begin to degenerate into a He said She said situation.

.

And me. JC is a member here but you would not ever see him get involved like this. Even when that bogus thread appeared (you and I know which one I mean) he knew enough to stay well out of it

At the end of the day I think this thread can be educational, and that it can become even more so if left to run its natural course

 

[handymike]

I wonder- is the phenomenon limited to the FQHH or mid-weight as well. The FQHH might hold creases more.

 

[schitzo]

I would guess (and I have no science to back this up) that the mid weight stuff is less susceptible. I am still seriously wondering about veg tanned goatskin too.

Anyone?

 

[Monitor]

Just want to state my opinions on Aero customer service which, from my experience is way above good. I don't recall ever reading about any kind of problem with Aero jackets that wasn't instantly rectified by the company - I know they've certainly done right by me when I know without a doubt I didn't deserve it, and from my experience, that is an extremely rare thing.

 

[schitzo]

Just want to state my opinions on Aero customer service which, from my experience is way above good. I don't recall ever reading about any kind of problem with Aero jackets that wasn't instantly rectified by the company - I know they've certainly done right by me when I know without a doubt I didn't deserve it, and from my experience, that is an extremely rare thing.

M, I hear you and you're definitely not the only one who can say that. But please, let's try and keep this thread away from that, and stick to the topic. Thanks

 

[Sloan1874]

Dear Hide n Seek

Well, this is a bit awkward isn't it.

I thought our conversation had been concluded privately. Only then did I bring it here, because this is after all a forum for people to discuss their shared interests and clearly some people are interested in this particular topic. Suffice to say I am too ergo there isn't any reason why I shouldn't feel free to faithfully share with others my point of view and my experience.

I have not misquoted or misrepresented the aero position in any way, thus as I'm reading your words back I cannot help but feel that the tone of this comment is distasteful. For clarity, aero have an opinion and I have one - which aren't the same. I have never once insinuated that the aero opinion is dishonest or lacking integrity, nor would I. I had hoped I might be afforded the same courtesy

But to put shrinkage in inverted commas makes a statement.

And to state that you only know the history of the jacket as relayed to you by me is also unnecessary, for that much is self evident, and as such serves only to cast doubt on my honesty.

Moreover, to imply that I have used fruit to hide creases is also not nice, and frankly more than a little bit ridiculous. I merely used fruit as it was the first thing to hand and its placement was determined solely by the slack in the tape measure. If that occurred where the creases are then so be it, though for the record the fruit only partially obscures them. I also sent you a picture without any fruit, which you referred to in order to reach the conclusion that you did.. so why you are mentioning the fruit now I know not. As no doubt is blindingly obvious to anyone looking in on this I blatantly have nothing to hide, which is why I offered to show you a video of the whole thing - an offer you chose not to take me up on. Instead you gave me a diagnosis that left us with no room for the conversation to continue. Yet now if I want to talk to others here you are jumping back in? FYI I made a video this morning and from my POV I definitely would have preferred to show you that one first, alas apparently you have seen enough from the two shots (fruit and without) for that to not be necessary. However, IMHO those shots are inconclusive whereas the video on the other hand shows everything very clearly, and I do mean everything

In all honesty the amount of misinformation above does not read very well. For the record - which I now feel obliged to straighten - 2 weeks ago I preferred the aero original herc to the GW and BK versions. Today two weeks later I still do, and so the answer to the what's changed question is nothing. The length of my jacket has no bearing on this POV and is not even mentioned in that thread. Re that thread, while we're on the subject IMHO, since you brought it up, I will add that I did feel at the time and still do that you guys all coming on to vote for your own jacket was again - how shall I put this - ill advised. Once more, that's just my opinion and you may well disagree with it. I am quite certain that Sloane does.

Regarding the initial order arriving in the wrong leather that was very decent of aero to put that straight immediately as I think I mentioned publicly at the time. Though as I recall the mix up was a genuine breakdown in communication for which both parties were accountable. I never asked for Vintage nor did I ever even contemplate it. I only ever asked for Regular thus I saw no reason to check what had been written on my order in the leather choice section for in my mind there was no need to.

Let me say this. For anyone who doesn't know, Aero's customer service is much better than average. Overall I would classify it as good. But that doesn't mean that everybody's experience is good all of the time. Some people may have an excellent experience (I have been there myself) while others may have one that's less than satisfactory. Whatever the experience I think that once the customer has spoken to the manufacturer privately and that conversation has been concluded, then provided he does so in a faithful and transparent way without misrepresenting the other side he should be free to discuss it with other interested parties on here, without said maker then jumping back in to restart a conversation that was privately ended, by said maker himself. Does that sound unreasonable? I repeat, the conversation was not ended by me it was ended by the aero conclusion that left no room for it to continue. I assume aero are not on here to say that I must not talk about this publicly, in which case, please let us continue this thread in accordance with the rules of the house and on the premise that adults are allowed to respectfully disagree with each other. In other words, there is zero need for any further attempts at undermining my integrity. My understanding of tfl is that that type of thing is not welcome here. What's more let these be the last words exchanged between us publicly, for this is not good practice either

Bottom line is that sometimes the adults in this forum may have a different opinion than aero does and so long as they are just that - sincere opinions as opposed to malicious attacks (you know the type of thing, below the belt catty comments intended to disparage one maker, for examples of what I'm talking about here read Sloan on BK at any given opportunity) - then the gentleman involved ought to be free to discuss these without aero coming on to derail their conversation. I repeat, I have not misquoted or misrepresented the aero position on this matter in any way. My offer of posting a video in broad daylight for members to form their own opinion speaks for itself. I'd also like to post pictures of me wearing it new and now to help work out of it has in fact shrunk all over and would cite this as further evidence of my good faith and transparency. IMO I think what has happened to my jacket is peculiar and accordingly that this incident is a valid talking point.

Last point. After what you've concluded behind the scenes I can see why you would feel that talking to me privately is out of the equation. Fyi, I am very approachable and very reasonable and I would respectfully advise that it isn't and that doing so would surely be preferable to any misguided attempt at spinning this dialogue away from it's natural course

Yours truly
Schitz

tldnr

 

[pak]

I believe to a degree sites such as this tend to raise expectations and sometimes to an unreasonable level. Leather is variable material to make garments. We know from the 'getgo' whatever leather jacket we get is going to change. Sleeves shorten, collars go one direction or other and creases go this way and that. We call it break in. IMO, to order a jacket to the close specs(.25-.75 of an inch) some customers specify is just setting oneself up for disappointment. Additionally, I think airing greivences with makers, in public, is a last resort tactic.

 

[Seb Lucas]

This is getting awkward - but Schitzo isn't the only one with shrinking - Dav's shrinkage is very marked. Clearly no one can explain this phenomenon sufficiently as yet. And surely there is no blame to be attached to the issue. It seems at this point it's more about how this issue is negotiated or managed by both parties. Schitzo, what do you want to happen, what is your expectation? By the way I read the Aero post as that of someone finding it hard to process the information - not really bagging you. I think the word shrinkage was put in inverted commas because the phenomenon is still fairly mysterious.

 

[schitzo]

tldnr

This is getting awkward - but Schitzo isn't the only one with shrinking - Dav's shrinkage is very marked. Clearly no one can explain this phenomenon sufficiently as yet. And surely there is no blame to be attached to the issue. It seems at this point it's more about how this issue is negotiated or managed by both parties. Schitzo, what do you want to happen, what is your expectation? By the way I read the Aero post as that of someone finding it hard to process the information - not really bagging you. I think the word shrinkage was put in inverted commas because the phenomenon is still fairly mysterious.

When private conversations that are finished get dredged up here it sure is Seb. I'm not here with a set of expectations or demands.. but since you ask I think it'd be nice if Sloane could 'tldnr' this whole thread. Since each of us essentially knows what he's going to say before he says it I think probably that'd be for the best

 

[Otter]

ainkiller:

When private conversations that are finished get dredged up here it sure is Seb. I'm not here with a set of expectations or demands.. but since you ask I think it'd be nice if Sloane could 'tldnr' this whole thread. Since each of us essentially knows what he's going to say before he says it I think probably that'd be for the best

 

[Big J]

IMHO, for what it's worth, Schitzo had a leather jacket that appeared to him to shrink, and he was sharing that fact with the Lounge in order to get opinions/potential explanations, since, after all, the Lounge has a lot of experience, collectively.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

Naturally, some members suggested that he contact the maker, and he explained that he had done that.

No harm, no foul.

 

[ykurtz]

IMHO, for what it's worth, Schitzo had a leather jacket that appeared to him to shrink, and he was sharing that fact with the Lounge in order to get opinions/potential explanations, since, after all, the Lounge has a lot of experience, collectively.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

Naturally, some members suggested that he contact the maker, and he explained that he had done that.

No harm, no foul.

+1

 

[Plumbline]

For the record I've had in 15 years or so perhaps over 40 Aero's ( I know the exact number but it's a bit scary when I write it down ) .......

Across the history of their manufacture, there has been considerable variation in sizing ... older ones ( 80's and 90's) sized smaller / weirdly .... mid -aged ones from the 00's being somewhat larger .... and newer ones ( of which I've only had a 2nd hand halfbelt and a brand new ANJ-4) being much neater.

Other than 1/2" or so in the sleeves ( which usually stretches out and recovers) and perhaps 1/2" in the overall length ( again which often stretches out) and some stretching and pulling as the jacket hs shaped I've never experienced FQHH shrinking ..... if anything any FQHH jacket has been it's smallest / tightest straight out of the box and thereafter has loosened off and stretched a little thus overall I normally end up with a jacket that follows the following pattern :

1. Out of the box is as stiff and tight as it will ever be ( and noe of mine are EVER as tight as some of you guys wear them)
2. Creasing of the sleeves causes slight (1/2") shortening of sleeve and sometimes the back but only 1/2"
3. Wear stretches out the sleeve and back

and I end up with a broken in jacket of almost identical dimensions to my originl ( give or take 1/4" )

FQHH is incredibly durable and resiliant material and I have to say I've NEVER experience the apparent shortening / shrinkage Schizo is describing ...... that is not to discount or deny it happening ... i've just never experienced it.

If or whatever reason new FQHH hides are shrinking back then this is surely something Horween and Aero should be informed of as it's clearly a change ..... and even worse if jackets are shrinking back to 1/2 size or a full size smaller than this is a considerable change ( I have never seen this before)


In any case I'm sure Aero will be supportive in their usual manner ( which I have not had bad experience of) ..... within the bounds of reason obviiusly ...... a data point o one jacket is a concern, a data point of two jackets is also a concern ..... I wonder if Insurrection have any insight they can offer.

Either way having the "he said ... she said" debate in public forum is neither helpful nor constructive and just feeds the usual behaviours ( some of which are already evident) ..... it's great data Schitzo and one for us all to watch ..... as many have said ... no harm / no foul.

sorry if this is tldnr..... or maybe that should be cadnr

 

[Monitor]

^ Exactly my experience with these jackets.