Show us your 'vintage inspired' suits ....

[Eddie Derbyshire]

Rabbit, I know what you mean by the look of their jackets - they don't seem to be using either the right cloth (quilted cotton?!) to show off their work. I suppose the danger is in the shoulders if it comes back 'tubular' like many modern suits are. What i mean is, the shoulders have no natural shape, and just sort of hang over the arm like an upturned half-drainpipe. The example they have here doesn't look too shabby though, although it is a modern style: http://custom.luxire.com/collections/pants/products/dugdale-light-grey-plain-8960

Good to know their trousers are good though. Would they work from pictures too do you reckon? Or is that a bit more awkward than helpful?

The fellow I spoke to said that it would be best to send a jacket for them to copy. He also intimated that if I were to provide my own cloth it would be a reduced price too, so that's something I would like some advice from you chaps too. I know there's a vintage suiting thread, and there's a rave about Fox Flannel etc., but really I'm after something durable at a reasonable price. As you say, their Dugdale flannel seems nice, and I wonder if they have a nice Gabardine or something. I can't decide how thick to have it!

I'll see what Qirrel is able to quote me. I would obviously rather give my business to an individual tailor, especially if he does a bang-up job. It's just if it's all in my price range.

 

[Rabbit]

Here's how I placed my orders for a pair of 40s American trousers to be copied. I sent the following specs and added the pics below by replying to the order confirmation email. The pics were named by the type of measurement. In addition to the measurements required by Luxire per default, I added some more in the comments box. Personally, I would say that the more specs you provide, the less they will have to figure out the blanks in the pattern - it should make it easier for them, as long as the spes are to the point.
The photos were not meant to provide the measurements since these were already part of the description; rather, they were meant to show the overall dimensions in relation to one another. I wouldn't know if the fellow at the other end had ever seen 40s trousers, so I just wanted to make sure. Most of Luxire's customers are, I believe, of the modern suits wearers variety, and they might have their own ideas of what constitutes trousers "like from the 40s".


Specs provided:

Front Pleats: Double Pleat Reverse
Front Pockets: On Seam
Fly Style: Buttons
Waist Band: Custom style waistband (Add requirement in custom field below)
Rear Pockets: 2 Rear Pockets
Bottom Cuff: Yes 1.50"
Waist Size: 15.00
Half Hip Measurement: 22.00
Hip Measurement Front: 21.50
Pant Length: 40.50
Inseam Measurement: 28.00
Front Rise: 13.25
Back Rise: 18.50
Thigh Measurement (2 inch Below Crotch): 13.00
Knee Measurement: 10.50
Bottom / Ankle Opening: 9.50

Custom Requirements:

***This is a reproduction of a pair of 1940s trousers. Please see attached pics for further reference.***

Add a wedge-shaped piece at the crotch with these dimensions: 2.50 inches (adding thus to the rise) x 15.25 inches (thus reaching 7.625 inches into the inseam of the legs).
The rise therefore adds up to:
Front Rise: 13.25"
crotch piece: 2.50"
Back Rise: 16.125"
See pics (the file named "wedge-shaped crotch piece" and the front/back rise pics for reference).

Waistband 1.625 inches wide with belt loops 0.75 inches below the top of the waistband, and brace buttons on the inside of the waistband. Beltloop size 1.625 inches.

2 Rear pockets with 1 button each.

Pocket size of the side pockets: opening on seam, 6 inches. Pocket depth 13.50 inches from waistband.

Pocket size of the rear pockets: Pocket depth 10.50 inches from waistband.

Position of belt loops: 6 beltloops altogether - one in the front section on each side (see pics), one near to the side seam (just behind it) on each side, and one above the rear pockets' inner end, again on each side. See pics.

Regarding the double pleats: The inner pleats are .75 inches deep where they meet; they are sewn into the waist.


(Subsequent orders: length shortended from 41.50 to 40.50, inseam from 29.00 to 28.00. No further changes.)

For fit pics of the trousers, see here:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...r-larger-guy&p=1902521&viewfull=1#post1902521

I had about a dozen Luxire trousers made, mostly in summer fabrics (from Dugdale) since that's the part of the wardrobe where my vintage supply is the thinnest. They all came out the same.

Here's a thread with TT's Luxire trousers:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?72342-Luxire-trousers

 

[brendanm720]

On an off-topic subject, I approve of your shoes.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[guitarmasta12]

I remember seeing this thread when I was just a 'lurker'. I'm glad I've found it again. Do you mind giving me some details on your trousers TT? The sizing looks spot-on around the thigh, knee and ankle. What measurements do you tend to have to achieve that good-looking wide-leg? I don't feel that the trousers I've had made quite have it right.

Just to mention - your wedding suit is almost exactly the same as my Grandad's wedding suit from about 1950-51. He was of a similar build to yourself, and wore the same sort of single-button-fastening DB suit. A brilliant variation on the norm.

I would like to find somewhere to make me a 1940s style DB. Where do you go to get your stuff done?

 

[Eddie Derbyshire]

Rabbit - Thanks for all the info, it's very good of you. Reading your and TT's successful stories, but then Metatron's not-so-successful experience really has me at an impasse. I wonder if I order anything from them it should just be the trousers, and perhaps I go elsewhere for the jacket. I suppose if i can get hold of enough cloth, Luxire, or Spencer's (who quoted me £100 to make trousers with cloth I send), could make the trousers, and someone else can make the jacket. It might reduce the cost as well as reduce the risk. But then again, should I just fork out the extra £100 or whatever, and get the whole lot made properly? It would just mean saving for a verrrrry long time.

I'll keep in mind your ordering format though. You seem to have a good level of specificity. It's just whether I know enough about it to convert the measurements you have given into something for my size (38" waist).

Before I do anything, I'll wait on what Qirrel says, or indeed have a look around the local area for tailors. Esteban68 said there was a tailors near-ish to me that does suits starting at about £600. I suppose that isn't astronomical, but then again, you don't know what else there could be charges for, and it could soon snowball into something unaffordable for me.

I think perhaps the main cost-cutter could be grabbing a bargain on the cloth. I trawl through Ebay, but I don't really know enough about cloths to know whether it's a bargain or not! There seems to be some nice Reid & Taylor stuff going for £15 (plain black) to £50 (patterned) per metre. I had in my head a lovely plain blue suit, slightly lighter than navy.

By the way Rabbit, the trousers you have shown in the pics are lovely. Are they part of a suit?

Referring to Brendanm720's comment, I used to have some classic blue Converse years ago. They're one of the few pieces of footwear that looks better the worse you treat them!

 

[Eddie Derbyshire]

I would like to find somewhere to make me a 1940s style DB. Where do you go to get your stuff done?

I assume you mean myself and not TT? I have mine made via a friend of mine in Nottingham, UK, who's an outfitter. He sends off the orders to a separate company. I, like yourself, am looking to get a DB suit done. I've got a jacket I want copied for it.

 

[guitarmasta12]

I assume you mean myself and not TT? I have mine made via a friend of mine in Nottingham, UK, who's an outfitter. He sends off the orders to a separate company. I, like yourself, am looking to get a DB suit done. I've got a jacket I want copied for it.

Ah okay. Would they do stuff for guys over seas in the US? Maybe it's better I find something here.

 

[Rabbit]

Eddie, personally I recommend to have your suits made in the UK if you can find a tailor that suits your needs, or try someone like Quirel. Luxire, I don't know. As a said, I'm itching to try a deconstructed summer jacket, but I'd wait a while longer with constructed suits until Luxire has more experience with that sort of garment. For odd trousers, I'd recommend them. Splitting up the commission for a suit is an option, I guess, if it doesn't complicate things too much.

Ever since the Golden Era, dressers have been following the recipe of having their odd trousers made by the cheapest tailor they could find. It makes sense - trousers are the easiest garments to get right, and odd trousers used to be treated a little rough anyway, calling for regular replacements (like the "bread and butter" grey flannels).
Some dressers who took it plenty serious like the D.o.W. sometimes had the parts of their suits made by different tailors, giving the commission to whoever was best at certain garments. The Duke's idea wasn't to save money, though.

The trousers in those pics are almost certainly orphaned suit trousers. I've seen suits on eBay in fabrics similar to that a few times.
Oh, and it's been a long time since I wore Converse in the summer heat, the only time of year I ever wore them.

 

[Eddie Derbyshire]

Yes, I think you're right - using a tailor will be the better and more ethical option. I am eager to try out Luxire for their trousers though, so I think maybe splitting the commission could be a good option. I need to find a decent amount of cloth to split then! However, we shall see what Quirel says!
Re: the Duke of Windsor - I had heard the same thing! He apparently disliked the traditional cut of British trousers, I think, and preferred the lower-waisted American style, losing braces and the fishtail back. I might have my details mixed up there, but I remember reading that somewhere. And as you intimate, he wasn't really one for penny-pinching!

I once came across a lovely CC41 suit in a vintage shop with cloth very similar to your trousers there. It's a very appealing pattern!

 

[Eddie Derbyshire]

Ah okay. Would they do stuff for guys over seas in the US? Maybe it's better I find something here.

I don't think it would be possible my friend. He's just an independent retailer. If money isn't an issue for you, though, you should be able to find a local tailor who can sort you out!

 

[guitarmasta12]

I don't think it would be possible my friend. He's just an independent retailer. If money isn't an issue for you, though, you should be able to find a local tailor who can sort you out!

Well I know two and they aren't too good. Ones for hems and other cost too much hehe.

 

[Rabbit]

Re: the Duke of Windsor - I had heard the same thing! He apparently disliked the traditional cut of British trousers, I think, and preferred the lower-waisted American style, losing braces and the fishtail back. I might have my details mixed up there, but I remember reading that somewhere. And as you intimate, he wasn't really one for penny-pinching!

I once came across a lovely CC41 suit in a vintage shop with cloth very similar to your trousers there. It's a very appealing pattern!

About the Duke, yes I think it was something like that.

I've seen CC41 fabric patterns in a similar style, too. The trousers are American, and the fabric is a fairly thin worsted.

By the way Eddie, if you try Luxire for odd trousers it's clearly preferable to take the measurements off a vintage trouser. I did blow up my 30" trouser specs to get the 44" trousers for my father, but it was mostly luck that the pattern turned out well. Modifying measurements to a larger size isn't as simple as enlarging the pattern, it's not proportional. I just estimated it visually with a crude pattern, if you can even call it that.

If you don't have the sort of trousers that you'd like to get copied, maybe I can help to try and figure out the specs, then you could test them on a cheap trial pair. There's a good number of vintage trousers in my wardrobe to choose from for such an attempt, both British and American 20s-40s.

 

[Two Types]

Eddie: I would second what Rudie said - have a look at the SJC Forum where Simon (an FL man) is working with tailors to produce a 1930s suit in blue Donegal tweed. Might not be the style you want, but take a look anyway.

Good luck with Qirel, the suit he made was me was a revelation! I sent trousers to be copied and they came out better than the originals.

 

[Eddie Derbyshire]

Rabbit - Unfortunately, I don't have any real vintage trousers to copy, so I may indeed take you up on your kind offer to help me out there. I've got various pairs of nice trousers, and some old, but really I'd like some Oxford Bag style trousers, which thus far, I haven't been able to achieve. I asked my outfitter for 24" bottoms before, and he wouldn't do them.

TT - Thanks, I've submitted my registration to the SJC forum. I'll dig around to find that suit thread. I'm eagerly awaiting Qirrel's response! That suit he made you does look magnificent. Do you get a lot of wear out of it?

 

[volvomeister13]

Here's how I placed my orders for a pair of 40s American trousers to be copied. I sent the following specs and added the pics below by replying to the order confirmation email. The pics were named by the type of measurement. In addition to the measurements required by Luxire per default, I added some more in the comments box. Personally, I would say that the more specs you provide, the less they will have to figure out the blanks in the pattern - it should make it easier for them, as long as the spes are to the point.
The photos were not meant to provide the measurements since these were already part of the description; rather, they were meant to show the overall dimensions in relation to one another. I wouldn't know if the fellow at the other end had ever seen 40s trousers, so I just wanted to make sure. Most of Luxire's customers are, I believe, of the modern suits wearers variety, and they might have their own ideas of what constitutes trousers "like from the 40s".


Specs provided:

Front Pleats: Double Pleat Reverse
Front Pockets: On Seam
Fly Style: Buttons
Waist Band: Custom style waistband (Add requirement in custom field below)
Rear Pockets: 2 Rear Pockets
Bottom Cuff: Yes 1.50"
Waist Size: 15.00
Half Hip Measurement: 22.00
Hip Measurement Front: 21.50
Pant Length: 40.50
Inseam Measurement: 28.00
Front Rise: 13.25
Back Rise: 18.50
Thigh Measurement (2 inch Below Crotch): 13.00
Knee Measurement: 10.50
Bottom / Ankle Opening: 9.50

Custom Requirements:

***This is a reproduction of a pair of 1940s trousers. Please see attached pics for further reference.***

Add a wedge-shaped piece at the crotch with these dimensions: 2.50 inches (adding thus to the rise) x 15.25 inches (thus reaching 7.625 inches into the inseam of the legs).
The rise therefore adds up to:
Front Rise: 13.25"
crotch piece: 2.50"
Back Rise: 16.125"
See pics (the file named "wedge-shaped crotch piece" and the front/back rise pics for reference).

Waistband 1.625 inches wide with belt loops 0.75 inches below the top of the waistband, and brace buttons on the inside of the waistband. Beltloop size 1.625 inches.

2 Rear pockets with 1 button each.

Pocket size of the side pockets: opening on seam, 6 inches. Pocket depth 13.50 inches from waistband.

Pocket size of the rear pockets: Pocket depth 10.50 inches from waistband.

Position of belt loops: 6 beltloops altogether - one in the front section on each side (see pics), one near to the side seam (just behind it) on each side, and one above the rear pockets' inner end, again on each side. See pics.

Regarding the double pleats: The inner pleats are .75 inches deep where they meet; they are sewn into the waist.


(Subsequent orders: length shortended from 41.50 to 40.50, inseam from 29.00 to 28.00. No further changes.)

For fit pics of the trousers, see here:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...r-larger-guy&p=1902521&viewfull=1#post1902521

I had about a dozen Luxire trousers made, mostly in summer fabrics (from Dugdale) since that's the part of the wardrobe where my vintage supply is the thinnest. They all came out the same.

Here's a thread with TT's Luxire trousers:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?72342-Luxire-trousers

What fabric did you use for these? They're fantastic!

 

[PeterB]

Gentlemen, I watch this thread, with a sense of fascination. Most interested in the way that Rabbit managed to communicate his wishes to a tailor thousands of miles away. I have noticed with my recent suits that while the rise is sufficient in front, it is a little too short in the back (about 14 inches both sides), and the back of the trouser legs tend to hang against the skin. The answer would seem to be the mysterious crotch piece, thereby meaning that the back part would not have to be stretched under the crotch, and enabling a longer back rise. Is that right? Also, the way that Rabbit got the pleats directly up to the waist band is praiseworthy, on account of most tailors today do not know how to do that.

It is all a matter of communication. I had a problem communicating to my tailor in Dubai about wanting a structured chest, so he produced a kind of fabric refrigerator with arms. I missed a key word somewhere, trying as I was to tell him to make a large chest, narrow waist, pinched in line with the button. My old tailor knew how to do this, but unfortunately has retired back to the Philippines, taking his imagination with him.

One final point, what would you say is the ratio of thigh, knee and trouser bottom for the Golden Age late 30s trousers, not Oxford bags, but ordinary British suits?

Once again, I really appreciate the opportunity to learn from you fellows.

 

[herringbonekid]

The answer would seem to be the mysterious crotch piece, thereby meaning that the back part would not have to be stretched under the crotch, and enabling a longer back rise. Is that right?

the crotch insert (as seen in Rabbit's trousers above) is simply an extra piece that's been added because they were saving space when cutting the pieces out. the fork of the crotch is often the only thing that prevents you getting four trouser pieces cut neatly out of one width of fabric (double width) so it can be added on from some odd shapes afterwards, which is what you see there.
the same shape could be cut as one piece if you have sufficient fabric / room to lay them out.

 

[Rabbit]

What HBK said. The reason I had them copy a trouser with crotch piece was that I wanted a reinforcement (a liner piece) sewn into the crotch area and I didn't know how to communicate that without specifying a crotch piece (which is external - the seams of the crotch piece were used to attach the round liner piece), or whether it was even feasible to add such a liner without doing the crotch piece.

Peter, what that tailor of yours messed up was the front/back balance of the trousers, or whatever term tailors use for the way the front half of the leg hangs in relation to the back half of the leg. You might want to get your hands on a vintage pair, even if the size is not right, and have the tailor make his pattern from that pair, modifying the size if necessary.


Here's another fit pic of one of the Luxire copies of the mid 1940s blue pinstripe trousers above. Being a wartime cut, the trousers taper to 9.5" at the hem.

For reference, below is an extra high rise trouser (British, 30s), with 11.3" hem:

And another extra high rise (not quite as extreme as the navy pair) on a Westpoint Cadet trouser, with 10.25" hem:

 

[PeterB]

Thanks guys, for putting me right about the crotch piece. Rabbit, those light grey trousers in the picture are more or less exactly how my tailor does them, except that he makes the waist a bit higher, so that the top of the waistband just touches the first rib. Looks like he is on the right track, with some adjustments needed to the balance, as you say. In the same picture I am looking at the size of the bottoms, and it seems that the leg is more or less cut straight from the knee, with just a one inch taper. I like the look of that rather wide fit over the shoe. Is 1 inch taper what you have?

Best

Peter

 

[Rabbit]

Peter, the measurements for the Luxire copy are in the above post of the original trouser that they were copied from. 10.5" knee to 9.5" hem (half measurements).


The navy British suit trouser with extra-high rise has the following measurements, for comparison. A one-inch taper from knee to hem was just about the standard for wide leg trousers before the pegged 50s style started. Wide trousers with no taper from knee to hem tend to look flared when worn, while a one-inch taper tends to look straight.

11.3" hem
12.4" knee
13.4" thigh (2" below crotch seam)
33" waistband (due to extra high rise, these fit a 30" natural waist)
17.1" front rise (center crotch seam to upper edge of waistband)
20.9" back rise (center crotch seam to upper edge of waistband)