Show us your Guns!

[Andykev]

Really?

WDM Bell claimed to have killed over a thousand elephants in the first thirty years or so of the 20th century using a custom rifle

A thousand elephants?!!??! Why? Those aren't ducks or doves!

 

[rumblefish]

Shot placement is indeed key. WDM Bell claimed to have killed over a thousand elephants in the first thirty years or so of the 20th century using a custom rifle chambered in--ready for this?--Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5x54. That's not much larger than .22, though of course there's an awful lot more powder behind it.

Point is, there's more to killing game than just "bringing enough gun." I seriously doubt, however, that Mr Bell would've advocated the use of this round at close range, or in defense of oneself after inadvertently stumbling onto something big and pissed off!

I think Karamojo translated to "crazy white man with tiny gun"

 

[anon`]

He and his stories have unfortunately been the end of a lot of hunters. They read of this hunter taking elephants with essentially a 270. He may have, but he was an exceptional shot in the worst possible scenarios. He was extra ordinary, meaning most even active hunters fell far below his standards. It isn't all about shot placement, though much of it is with shooting anything. Cartridge has a tremendous amount to do with it as well. I take enough to shoot whatever I am planning to shoot. I can shoot better than 99.9% of the people out there. I wouldn't take a 270 to an elephant hunt. Most of those elephants were killed at very few yards. Any more distance and the bullet would simply bounce off.

No argument there, but nothing in your reply contradicts the fact that a small calibre can, in fact, kill very large animals.

A thousand elephants?!!??! Why? Those aren't ducks or doves!

For sure! That's why I noted that he claimed to have done so. Because a thousand ducks is an awful lot, and those used to be super common! Though, the man was active for about 35 years, so that would come down to "only" three or four elephants a year. But what the heck would one do with three elephants?

I think Karamojo translated to "crazy white man with tiny gun"

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest

 

[Opas Coat]

1. *coffcoff* Have you posted pics of your drilling?

2. A 220 grain .30 projectile should do the job on bear or moose. None of the pistols you've mentioned are going to cut the mustard, compared to even a 150 grain deer load in the .30-06.

A few pages back.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=20647&page=56

They would be Brown bear. There have even been some in my residential area looking for garbage. Usually trapped and transported elsewhere. I forgot to mention we have wolves up her too with the coyotes that seem like there in my back yard at night.

The basic big game I know of in the area: White tail, Mule deer, Moose, Brown bear and some Lynks. A few hours away you can get Mountain goat, Elk and others I'm not familiar with. Birds are a whole 'nother story.

 

[warbird]

No argument there, but nothing in your reply contradicts the fact that a small calibre can, in fact, kill very large animals.


For sure! That's why I noted that he claimed to have done so. Because a thousand ducks is an awful lot, and those used to be super common! Though, the man was active for about 35 years, so that would come down to "only" three or four elephants a year. But what the heck would one do with three elephants?


Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest

You can kill anything with I guess just about any caliber. However, it was later confirmed most elephants shot with small calibers, say such as a 22 died days or weeks later from blood poisoning and internal bleeding. I do not call that a kill myself.

Bell killed with a smaller caliber, but it was certainly a fairly powerful rifle, just not a powerful rifle for elephants. Cartridge is far more important than caliber. That is like saying a 22 is the same as a .223 or a 30-30 the same as a 300 mag or a 380 the same as a 357. My point was this; great shooters can be do lots of things that most people cannot. Just because a handful of people can shoot massive elephants with a lighter cartridge does not surprise me nor does it in any way encourage me to try and do that. That was my point, a great hunter could, could kill an elephant with one thing, although it may take a lot of shots to do it.

Bell hunted for ivory, it made him very, very wealthy. Meat went to villages, guides, gun bearers, trackers, etc. It was a different time, a different era.

 

[Doublegun]

Sidearm - like I said; 45 Long Cold, .357 Mag or .44 Mag. Don't forget a good holster that is easily accessible. Also, practice shooting A LOT holding the gun in your left hand, right hand and both hands. You have to be able to handle the gun single handed. There are also the .454 and .500 but recoil is almost unmanagable and the guns are heavy.

As for the other chatter about the effectiveness of small bore rifles against dangerous game; there are reasons why most African countries have minimum calibers for hunting dangerous game. Part of it is to protect the hunter from trying something utterly stupid but it is also out of respect for the game. Also, no reputable PH is ever going to allow a client to do something that will put himself (the PH) in a dangerous situation.

 

[warbird]

Sidearm - like I said; 45 Long Cold, .357 Mag or .44 Mag. Don't forget a good holster that is easily accessible. Also, practice shooting A LOT holding the gun in your left hand, right hand and both hands. You have to be able to handle the gun single handed. There are also the .454 and .500 but recoil is almost unmanagable and the guns are heavy.

As for the other chatter about the effectiveness of small bore rifles against dangerous game; there are reasons why most African countries have minimum calibers for hunting dangerous game. Part of it is to protect the hunter from trying something utterly stupid but it is also out of respect for the game. Also, no reputable PH is ever going to allow a client to do something that will put himself (the PH) in a dangerous situation.

Very well said.

 

[Story]

A few pages back.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=804489&postcount=1116

That's the problem with threads of this size, it's easy enough to miss something.

Very nice. :eusa_clap

If you handload, take a look at these - http://www.hawkbullets.com/Pricelist.htm

 

[warbird]

That's the problem with threads of this size, it's easy enough to miss something.

Very nice. :eusa_clap

If you handload, take a look at these - http://www.hawkbullets.com/Pricelist.htm

It is indeed spectacular. I love double rifles and drillings. A beautiful piece.

 

[Gummy]

Shot placement

One man here in Iceland shot a polar bear with .22LR. It was in self defence and killed it in one shot but I would not like to meet a starving polar bear with just .22LR to defend me and I do not believe anyone would as nothing may go wrong to turn the table and you are being served.

Regards,
Gummy

 

[John in Covina]

A thousand elephants?!!??! Why? Those aren't ducks or doves!

Must have been for those piano keys.

 

[Opas Coat]

how did you manage the polar bear kill with a 22 long?

Thank you for the kind remarks about my drilling, I am rather proud of it.

 

[Gummy]

how did you manage the polar bear kill with a 22 long?

Thank you for the kind remarks about my drilling, I am rather proud of it.

He said that he heard that the only way to shoot it with such a small caliber was to shoot it behind the ear and that is what he did. He must have had some strong nerves and steady hands to do it as the polar bears that drift here come from Greenland and are starving as they have not eaten for up to two months and are extremely dangerous. I would have tried to run and hide BTW it was .22 Long Rifle but still very small

Regards,
Gummy

 

[matrioshka]

I thought Bell used a Rigby bolt action in 7x57 Mauser. Used FMJ as well.

It's been a while since I read that, I may be wrong. Anyway, he figured out there was a spot on a elephant's skull that was very thin, and he aimed for that.

I read an account of someone killing one with a .410, but the way in which he did it borders on sadism. It still makes me cringe.

M

 

[jamespowers]

I read an account of someone killing one with a .410, but the way in which he did it borders on sadism. It still makes me cringe.

M

A 410?! You might as well use a popgun. :eusa_doh:

 

[warbird]

I thought Bell used a Rigby bolt action in 7x57 Mauser. Used FMJ as well.

It's been a while since I read that, I may be wrong. Anyway, he figured out there was a spot on a elephant's skull that was very thin, and he aimed for that.

I read an account of someone killing one with a .410, but the way in which he did it borders on sadism. It still makes me cringe.

M

Yes you are correct as well. He used a number of different rifles during his time in Africa. by the end of his career he had become convinced most hunters should use at least a .30 of some sort on dangerous game. Most of Africa apparently agreed as 375 H&H Mag is now the minimum on dangerous game there.

He may not have used Rigby exclusively, but the vast vast majority of his kills of everything came with Rigby rifles. They are terrific rifles as I like my 416, but usually defer to the 416 rem as it has same ballistics and is far cheaper to shoot. The 416 was certainly one of the great all time cartridges. They have more power than a 375 and kick less. The 470 Nitro is to me as high as I want to go. It is as good as a 500 and much more forgiving. I have shot a 700 Nitro double rifle..........once. I think I dang near got a concussion, my brain moved around at the very least. I wont shoot one again I imagine and at $100 a round they also are not exactly practical.

 

[jamespowers]

Yes you are correct as well. He used a number of different rifles during his time in Africa. by the end of his career he had become convinced most hunters should use at least a .30 of some sort on dangerous game. Most of Africa apparently agreed as 375 H&H Mag is now the minimum on dangerous game there.

He may not have used Rigby exclusively, but the vast vast majority of his kills of everything came with Rigby rifles. They are terrific rifles as I like my 416, but usually defer to the 416 rem as it has same ballistics and is far cheaper to shoot. The 416 was certainly one of the great all time cartridges. They have more power than a 375 and kick less. The 470 Nitro is to me as high as I want to go. It is as good as a 500 and much more forgiving. I have shot a 700 Nitro double rifle..........once. I think I dang near got a concussion, my brain moved around at the very least. I wont shoot one again I imagine and at $100 a round they also are not exactly practical.

Have you shot the T-Rex yet? A 577 Caliber gun would likely take down anything if you could hold onto it after firing it.
Turn off the volume before clicking here.
http://www.c00lstuff.com/485/A_real_men_s_rifle__the_T_rex_gun_rifle/

 

[carebear]

Bell dissected a LOT of elephant skulls (he had enough available as we've seen) to find the proper aiming points for a brain shot from any given angle with the light rifle.

Minimum caliber regs are an attempt to counteract the tendency of some folks to read the "what" and not put in the time to learn the "how".

Still, regardless of the amount of practice I might put in, I'd rather be a bit overgunned for any given animal than risk my mistake causing it unecessary suffering.

 

[warbird]

Bell dissected a LOT of elephant skulls (he had enough available as we've seen) to find the proper aiming points for a brain shot from any given angle with the light rifle.

Minimum caliber regs are an attempt to counteract the tendency of some folks to read the "what" and not put in the time to learn the "how".

Still, regardless of the amount of practice I might put in, I'd rather be a bit overgunned for any given animal than risk my mistake causing it unecessary suffering.

Well said. Unnecessary suffering to the animal or possible you.

 

[Undertow]

Please forgive me if I've missed this...

Does anyone here own a punt gun? And could someone expand on these weapons?

I've read quite a bit on wiki and google, but I'm wondering if anyone here has first hand or second hand experience with these strange things.

Thanks!