Show us your Guns!

[MikePotts]

Great pic. Thundercolt!

 

[Joao Encarnado]

Nice hat!

 

[MikeKardec]

"I am often concerned that modern kids who play computer games and thus train themselves in an "if it moves shoot it" manner will be more dangerous than other generations if ever given weapons."

Shooting, real shooting, is a discipline. And there is a great difference between real combat and a computer game.

Not so ignorant on the shooting side ... totally ignorant on the video/computer game side. I'm always wondering if the tendency or reaction to shoot before thinking could leak through from gaming to real life weapons safety.

I get the learned trade, actual survival and competence learned in battle part. Very interested in the idea that the training (for whatever it's worth) hasn't improved much. Got to look into it more!

 

[Harp]

I get the learned trade, actual survival and competence learned in battle part. Very interested in the idea that the training (for whatever it's worth) hasn't improved much.

It isn't so much that the training is deficient or hasn't improved since the Second World War, but rather that Mars' evolution
within a comparative time and a guerilla conflict with indigenous enemy practices cannot be adequately compressed within
practical limits. A sixteen week training cycle can pass on fundamental knowledge, but the learning process is more intense
and instructive in combat. Ambush configurations for example, X,L,U, and V are different, and while it is possible to escape
from the last three, the X is inescapable. Some mistakes can be rectified, others cannot and prove a fatal lesson.

 

[MikeKardec]

Ambush configurations for example, X,L,U, and V are different

I hadn't heard of the "U" shape before! A higher ground scenario?

 

[Harp]

I hadn't heard of the "U" shape before! A higher ground scenario?

Terrain allowance varies. It has been a trip down memory lane Mike. Finis et pax vobiscum amicus.[angel]

 

[Renault]

E

View attachment 26930

Not so ignorant on the shooting side ... totally ignorant on the video/computer game side. I'm always wondering if the tendency or reaction to shoot before thinking could leak through from gaming to real life weapons safety.

I get the learned trade, actual survival and competence learned in battle part. Very interested in the idea that the training (for whatever it's worth) hasn't improved much. Got to look into it more!

Then we have a whole lot in common. That is total ignorance of computer games. I will say this. Having say the past 5 years at a gunsmithing bench I have discovered that those with the most computer game knowledge, as a rule, have the least practical firearm knowledge.

Coworkers and I discussed this for hours on end. That there appears to exist a cultural gap between a group that firearms were not really a part of their upbringing that from say our generation or at least our upbringing where shooting, hunting etc was almost an everyday affair. The group I refer to are not sinister or evil, just ignorant of the basics. And they appear to have a lot of disposable income. Sure they will always be such differences. But I feel that many of us or at least or kids are possibly the last to experience the degree of outdoorsmanship that we did.

There are those from that particular group who recognize this. And I think that is the cause of the resurgence/popularity in the bushcraft hobby! The wanting to learn skills that have become, not lost, but set aside by society.

 

[Thundercolt]

Great pic. Thundercolt!

Thanks my Texas friend!

 

[Oldsarge]

Playing video games at home, I grant you, is no substitute for combat experience. However the use of video games as training devices by the U.S. Military is of estimable value. The Iraqi's discovered this to their dismay in the Gulf War. Our tank crews trained on simulators that were giant video games. The training sergeants 'complained' that the major drawback to them was getting the kids to stop and go eat! Routines and procedures learned (very cheaply, compared to live fire) in video games allowed American crews to devastate the Iraq tanks in battle. It wasn't just the difference between M-1's and T-62's (though that was a big factor) but the difference in training that was paramount. So when you want to comment on the video game shooter vs the practical, keep in mind that there are variations in both and with the right training a video gamer can be a deadly foe. This is especially true today as the newest weapons systems are deliberately modeled on video games to make it easier for the new soldiers and sailors to learn them.

 

[Renault]

ASarge,

My "video game" when a kid was a gully full of empty cans on the ranch, and a brick of 500, 22 LR's.

Set up by the score and shot for time against another compadre doing the same thing!!

Different times.

Totally different culture now. Not trying to turn political (for the bartenders). But kinda hitting in the same vein as brought up above with the question set forth. Example. What is/was more dangerous? Kids these days playing video games or us as kids walking down the highway, all toting a shotgun, to dove hunt the neighbors field??? You know! Bet you did it too! Heck. Deer rifle in car at high school so you could leave to hit the hunting camp after last period!!! Do this today and watch the results!!! Times have changed!!

 

[MikeKardec]

Times have changed!!

In the 1950s my mother used to leave her rifle in the back seat of her car while she was attending Westlake School for Girls ... one of the fanciest private schools in LA. Then she and her friends would go down to land that my granddad was developing near Palm Springs and shoot cans all weekend. They didn't even consider themselves "outdoorsy" girls.

I didn't grow up quite the same but a brick of .22s and a pile of cans sounds like fun to me!

It seems to me that video games have huge potential in training, educating, people to do all sorts of stuff ... when they are well designed to do the job. I just worry that some recreational games are inadvertently teaching bad habits and getting them ingrained as reactions. I took fencing in high school. Later in college I tried fencing with actors who had taken stage combat classes ... though many were very athletic they had not been trained to have the "killer instinct" that I did. I was never a particularly good fencer but when I felt a hole in some one's defense appear, I could NOT stop myself. Soon no one would fence with me because of those ingrained reactions.

I have worried a bit when I'm on the range about people "trained" by irresponsible recreational computer games. In them shooting seems to have no repercussions other than an electronic score of one sort or another, safety may not be a priority, and there may be a "pull the trigger" reflex that is not healthy for people in the real world! It would be nice to feel that even the silliest of computer games made an attempt at safe weapons handling ... there is no question it can be part of the challenge and the experience.

 

[Oldsarge]

ASarge,

My "video game" when a kid was a gully full of empty cans on the ranch, and a brick of 500, 22 LR's.

Set up by the score and shot for time against another compadre doing the same thing!!

Different times.

Totally different culture now. Not trying to turn political (for the bartenders). But kinda hitting in the same vein as brought up above with the question set forth. Example. What is/was more dangerous? Kids these days playing video games or us as kids walking down the highway, all toting a shotgun, to dove hunt the neighbors field??? You know! Bet you did it too! Heck. Deer rifle in car at high school so you could leave to hit the hunting camp after last period!!! Do this today and watch the results!!! Times have changed!!

Sigh, I wish! No, I grew up in a suburb of L.A. and the only opportunity to shoot was the local police kid's rifle club where nothing but formal .22 competition was allowed. You had to either bring your own formal target piece (like a Win 52!) or borrow one of the beaters they had to loan. I went a few times but it wasn't any fun at all, just die-hard competition . . . and the girls always beat me! In order to be able to shoot like you did we had to drive an hour out into the desert and since my dad was working two jobs all the time that didn't happen much. It's a miracle I got to be as good a shot as I am and as avid a hunter as I am given the complete lack of support I got. Heck, I've got more access to shooting now with local indoor pistol ranges than I had growing up!

 

[Renault]

We all have the killer instinct. It's in our DNA. But all of us should have also been taught the difference between right and wrong. I know it sounds pretty simple. But I feel it's the bottom line. And those who decide to do wrong should be held accountable for their actions.

I know we've drifted a bit the last few days. So here's another one I posted a few months back.

 

[jkingrph]

Playing video games at home, I grant you, is no substitute for combat experience. However the use of video games as training devices by the U.S. Military is of estimable value. The Iraqi's discovered this to their dismay in the Gulf War. Our tank crews trained on simulators that were giant video games. The training sergeants 'complained' that the major drawback to them was getting the kids to stop and go eat! Routines and procedures learned (very cheaply, compared to live fire) in video games allowed American crews to devastate the Iraq tanks in battle. It wasn't just the difference between M-1's and T-62's (though that was a big factor) but the difference in training that was paramount. So when you want to comment on the video game shooter vs the practical, keep in mind that there are variations in both and with the right training a video gamer can be a deadly foe. This is especially true today as the newest weapons systems are deliberately modeled on video games to make it easier for the new soldiers and sailors to learn them.

and the military uses video simulators for everything. Every aircraft used has its simulator. I watched a B 52 crew running in air refueling sims. Back in '69 when I was a new butter bar in the Air Force, training to be a weapons director, the weapon being a fighter interceptor, we used crude simulators. As students we were using the large stationary radar scopes, and our targets ( incoming aircraft) were electronically created and controlled by NCO's in an adjacent room. The reason for our being was that the on board radar in those days for most interceptors was only 35-40 miles, the F 4 would if I rememeber correctly just about double that. We used the radar, with movable cursors and a circular slide rule called an attack computer to figure the geometry and speeds of our attack aircraft, varying the tactics depending on the weapons carried by the interceptor, heat seeking or radar guided. You quickly learned to visualize the situation and could actually run an intercept by using the cursor on the radar screen, I did this once when the officer who was supposed to be doing the slide rule calculations for me was too slow, so I did it in my head and used the cursor.

My sister in law worked for FLight Safety in Savannah, Ga for a while, teaching cabin crews for luxury Grumman Gulfstreams. I got to see the simulators for that aircraft, A big room on stilts that would tilt , jerk, and move about to simulate aircraft movement . Inside the room was a complete cockpit setting with all controls, screens for both visual and ifr(instrument flight ratings) trainging. I have had instructor pilots tell me students would sometimes get sick, dizzy, and totally uncoordinated in the simulators.

 

[Kirk H.]

We all have the killer instinct. It's in our DNA. But all of us should have also been taught the difference between right and wrong. I know it sounds pretty simple. But I feel it's the bottom line. And those who decide to do wrong should be held accountable for their actions.

I know we've drifted a bit the last few days. So here's another one I posted a few months back.

Lovely Webley RIC Bob.

 

[Oldsarge]

and the military uses video simulators for everything. Every aircraft used has its simulator. I watched a B 52 crew running in air refueling sims. Back in '69 when I was a new butter bar in the Air Force, training to be a weapons director, the weapon being a fighter interceptor, we used crude simulators. As students we were using the large stationary radar scopes, and our targets ( incoming aircraft) were electronically created and controlled by NCO's in an adjacent room. The reason for our being was that the on board radar in those days for most interceptors was only 35-40 miles, the F 4 would if I rememeber correctly just about double that. We used the radar, with movable cursors and a circular slide rule called an attack computer to figure the geometry and speeds of our attack aircraft, varying the tactics depending on the weapons carried by the interceptor, heat seeking or radar guided. You quickly learned to visualize the situation and could actually run an intercept by using the cursor on the radar screen, I did this once when the officer who was supposed to be doing the slide rule calculations for me was too slow, so I did it in my head and used the cursor.

My sister in law worked for FLight Safety in Savannah, Ga for a while, teaching cabin crews for luxury Grumman Gulfstreams. I got to see the simulators for that aircraft, A big room on stilts that would tilt , jerk, and move about to simulate aircraft movement . Inside the room was a complete cockpit setting with all controls, screens for both visual and ifr(instrument flight ratings) trainging. I have had instructor pilots tell me students would sometimes get sick, dizzy, and totally uncoordinated in the simulators.

So true. And today, with drones doing yeoman's work over the battlefield the videogame has itself become a weapons system. Strange doings, really.

 

[Renault]

Shootin' irons, amigos!!! Shootin' irons!

 

[Renault]

Mas shootin' irons!!!!

 

[Renault]

Heck! Here's one of 5 revolvers I had to clean out of wifey's room before she went into hospice care back in January!!!! And yes they were ALL Loaded!!! Wifey"s one you didn't want to trifle with!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Shootin' irons, amigos!!! Shootin' irons!

Now yur talkin....