Show us your British suits

[Two Types]

Further to the discussion of Burtons, I found these catalogue scans. Unfortunately, I can only post links since the scans are a PDF and I can't extract images.
This is the 1931 'Sartorial Service' brochure, which shows the available fabrics:
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.3/0/1.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.3/0/2.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.3/0/3.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.3/0/4.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.3/0/5.pdf

 

[Two Types]

Here's the Burtons 1932 'Distinguished Dress' brochure:
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.4/0/1.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.4/0/2.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.4/0/3.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.4/0/4.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.4/0/5.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.4/0/6.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.4/0/7.pdf

 

[Two Types]

And the Burtons 1932-1933 'Artistic Attire' brochure:
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.5/0/1.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.5/0/2.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.5/0/3.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.5/0/4.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.5/0/5.pdf

 

[peaklapels]

This belt back Burton suit?

OK, first post after a long long time lurking (I’m sorry to say that even seeing a exceptionally well turned out and regular poster striding around the academic quarter of this town hasn’t made me take the plunge until now) so I thought I’d start with a bang.

I didn’t realise quite how rare this was 3 or 4 years ago when I took a risk on a clearly mothed and dirty suit with poor pictures on ebay, but I did know it was special. Fancy-back apart it’s got everything you could want from a sporty 30’s number including 24inch trouser bottoms (which are clearly huge but on a guy who’s 5’7 that’s erm, very huge.
The jacket is 4 on 1 buttoning with the highest arm holes on any jacket I own, very short in length and has pronounced pagoda/roped shoulders when worn (doesn’t really show on the photo’s).
It’s kind of extreme and although I wear 20’s to 50’s vintage pretty much every day it’s the suit I own that gets most comments (probably why it’s not exactly a regular in my rotation along with the fact it’s got lots of moth damage and several less than invisible repairs).
I’m very interested in the local menswear history and spent a couple of years working at the old Burton’s factory in Hare Hills - indeed working there first got me interested in vintage clothing although the brain wave that I could actually buy and wear the clothes came later. It’s an incredible building although heart-breaking that it’s been no more than a warehouse for 25 years or so. I used to sneak into the surprisingly utilitarian boardroom occasionally to eat my sandwiches under the portrait of Sir Montague and managed to find various fascinating bits of history lying around the place.
I’ve had the idea for a while of writing a book about Burton and the menswear industry as a reflection on the 20th century history of the North and British society so I might ask for any information Loungers might have in the future. I’ll post more items that might be of interest as well – I’ve got the start of a Burton exhibition in my wardrobe!

 

[herringbonekid]

whoa (i never use the word 'whoa' in real life but...) whoa !

this must be the baby blue one that Baron said he passed up on. i missed it being on ebay. you realise that you own one of the rarest suits in the Uk ?

Hare Hills.... Leeds ?

what job did you do at Burton ?

 

[peaklapels]

Yup, Harehills (darn spellcheck), Leeds.

It's one rare beast indeed. I'm guessing that only a few younger men went for this kind of statement in 30's Britain and the Brighton Rock image of spivs and wideboys wearing suits with exotic features was true at the time. My alterations tailor who's very old school Leeds told me he had a 30's belt back in the 70's which he used for reference "when all that Great Gatsby style happened". Apparently he did a few suits and jackets but said he never got any of them perfect.

I was a real big hitter with Arcadia - working in the mailroom and moving pallets around for a couple of years. I had a great time though and some of the guys I worked with had been there since they were 15 and had plenty of stories about the 70's and 80's including the day the last bale of fabric was delivered...............

 

[herringbonekid]

TT, thanks for the Burtons PDFs.

i have a couple of metres of this Laird type fabric, although i don't know what the weave is called (anyone ?):

it may have been used by Burtons. it's very similar to the first two, but different colours. it's CC41 printed:

 

[herringbonekid]

I'm guessing that only a few younger men went for this kind of statement in 30's Britain and the Brighton Rock image of spivs and wideboys wearing suits with exotic features was true at the time.

i have a box set of George Formby films (late 30s mainly) and there seems to be a belt back jacket in nearly every one of them. where did all the British belt-backs go though ?

I had a great time though and some of the guys I worked with had been there since they were 15 and had plenty of stories about the 70's and 80's including the day the last bale of fabric was delivered...............

i share your heartache for the demise of the once great industries of this country. particularly the textile and garment making ones.




p.s. is there really no buttonhole where the lapel turns over ? it looks like it's pressed for the top button.

 

[Two Types]

where did all the British belt-backs go though ?

Think about it: There would most likely have been way fewer belt-backs than other jackets in that period. Let's guess that they were mainly worn by younger men (that really is a guess). The thirties is followed by six years of war and then five or so years of rationing.
Somewhere I have figures for the clothing situation in the winter of 1944/1945. it is truly depressing to read.
With so little new clothing available, clothes wore out. Furthermore, the men who owned suits went into the forces. For many people this meant regular physical exercise. Many owners of nice suits might have been in office jobs pre-1939. But after a few months of hard military training they changed shape. Poor youths quickly grew taller and filled out. Middle class men developed broader chests and shoulders. So they eventually came home to suits that didn't fit. Ill fitting suits get recycled - passed onto others for workwear, recut for younger brothers to wear etc.

The result, very few surviving suits.

That's my theory.

 

[Nick D]

They may well have been recycled long before that. Many of the pamphlets put out by the Government encouraged women to cut up old clothes for a variety of uses. One use for old men's felt hats was to make (shudder!) slippers.

 

[Two Types]

They may well have been recycled long before that. Many of the pamphlets put out by the Government encouraged women to cut up old clothes for a variety of uses. One use for old men's felt hats was to make (shudder!) slippers.

Whenever I think about clothing shortages at that time, it reminds me of the story of an acquaintance of mine (now in his nineties). As a teenager from a very poor South London family, he grew up wearing second hand victorian and edwardian suits. They were heavy, totally out of fashion, and ill-fitting. It was not until he joined the army in 1938 that he was able to afford a new outfit: grey a pale blue suit. But he had little chance to wear it since war was declared. He spent five years as a prisoner of war, then came home desperate to get out of the army and put on his one and only suit. Whilst recovering in hospital he was visited by his mother who told him she had spent all his savings and had pawned his suit. He stills bitter about it!

 

[Two Types]

More Burtons, 'Dress Distinction' 1933-1934:
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.6/0/1.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.6/0/2.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.6/0/3.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.6/0/4.pdf

 

[Two Types]

'Trustworthy Tailoring' by Burtons, 1934:

http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.7/0/1.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.7/0/2.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.7/0/3.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.7/0/4.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.7/0/5.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.7/0/6.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.7/0/7.pdf

 

[Two Types]

'Matchless Modes' by Burtons 1936:
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.8/0/1.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.8/0/2.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.8/0/3.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.8/0/4.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.8/0/5.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.8/0/6.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.8/0/7.pdf

 

[Two Types]

'True Tailoring' by Burtons, 1937:
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.9/0/1.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.9/0/2.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.9/0/3.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.9/0/4.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.9/0/5.pdf

 

[Two Types]

'Correct Clothes' by Burtons, 1931:
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.10/0/1.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.10/0/2.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.10/0/3.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.10/0/4.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.10/0/5.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.10/0/6.pdf
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.S.1991.19.10/0/7.pdf

HBK: I bet you love the 'Oceanic Waves' 8567H cloth.

 

[Two Types]

Earlier on this thread there was a question over what happened with the Burtons patterns. Here is a link to one held in Leeds:
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.P.2003.1.8491/0/1.pdf

 

[Two Types]

And here's the head designer marking out canvas in 1949:
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/LMG/LEEDM.P.2003.1.8726/0/1.pdf

 

[herringbonekid]

Think about it: There would most likely have been way fewer belt-backs than other jackets in that period. Let's guess that they were mainly worn by younger men (that really is a guess). The thirties is followed by six years of war and then five or so years of rationing.
Somewhere I have figures for the clothing situation in the winter of 1944/1945. it is truly depressing to read.
With so little new clothing available, clothes wore out. Furthermore, the men who owned suits went into the forces. For many people this meant regular physical exercise. Many owners of nice suits might have been in office jobs pre-1939. But after a few months of hard military training they changed shape. Poor youths quickly grew taller and filled out. Middle class men developed broader chests and shoulders. So they eventually came home to suits that didn't fit. Ill fitting suits get recycled - passed onto others for workwear, recut for younger brothers to wear etc.

The result, very few surviving suits.

That's my theory.

TT, i think all of those points are almost certainly true. yet, i still think that many of them would have been saved rather than recycled as they would have been expensive, prized jackets and suits for that time. it's amazing, how many suits emerge from the back of closets (even now) and the owner says something like " this was my grandfather's suit from the 30s/ 40s and has been worn very little ".

however, given that there were fewer belt-backs than any other style i assume that the small amount that did survive are now bought up. Ben Stephens where are you ?

 

[herringbonekid]

HBK: I bet you love the 'Oceanic Waves' 8567H cloth.

yes, very 20s looking. i wouldn't say no to any of those fabrics though. thanks for the links !

quote: "when selecting your suit the latest vogue is to have a light overcoat made of the same material"

hadn't heard that before (year was 1931).