Shinki vs Langlitz Horsehide

[Blackadder]

Langlitz will guarantee the fit. I don't think Himel will do that (maybe they do?) so right there my biz would go to Langlitz. For that kind of an upcharge I'd want a fit guarantee which you do get from Langlitz.

I have a sample of the Langlitz horse and it is darn nice. Probably the nicest horse hide I have seen in person. (I've owned Schott horse, currently own Rainbow Country and Colimbo in horse).

With Langlitz it was not worth $1200 to me since I am not wealthy but if I had the extra cash to spend, I'd do it and pony up no questions asked.

I am no fan of Horween CXL horsehide or steer for jackets. For boots it is ok but still I prefer other leathers. I think I am the only guy here who dislikes Horween CXL.

The shine on the horsehide goes away after a couple weeks of wear.

No you are not. I also said I don't like Horween CXL for jacket but I think it is great boot leather. Some of my favourite boots are CXL.

 

[Blackadder]

No, there's plenty of folks who don't like CXL. Which I understand, it's heavy and stiff, easily scratched, prone to strange creasing. I'm personally not a fan of lighter leathers. I've tried. It's just not for me. For whatever reason when I pick up a leather jacket that weighs under 5 lbs...

That said I've also changed my stance on CXL as my favorite leather ever...not sure that's still true.

Not the weight that bothers me, just oil leather is more of a boot leather. Combination tan tries to bring the best of both world but it is too soft compared to veg tanned leather and too hard compared to the chrome. It is sort of middle which is great and not great. I guess if no one brings back the veg tanned leather, it may be the next best thing to those who like veg tanned.

 

[Mich486]

Fit guaranteed or not imho $1200 just for getting horse is quite a ridiculous up charge. How do they justify that?!


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[Hh121]

There is a email from Langlitz somewhere I read few years ago mentioned the reason they charge so much for horsehide is because they had a bad quality horsehide, there are many many hide wasted (because not qualify for jacket making), that brings the price high.

 

[sweetfights]

There is a email from Langlitz somewhere I read few years ago mentioned the reason they charge so much for horsehide is because they had a bad quality horsehide, there are many many hide wasted (because not qualify for jacket making), that brings the price high.

Yes- I read the same thing. Stuff is so expensive and Langlitz is so selective it was cost prohibitive.
But if they found a good source--BINGO!!

 

[Blackadder]

Fit guaranteed or not imho $1200 just for getting horse is quite a ridiculous up charge. How do they justify that?!


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I think some companies quote a heavy up charge to discourage people from making custom requests. After all most companies (except those kickstarters and one man workshops) have their own process and have supplies and materials all stocked up and ready to go.
There may be:- time costs including recalibrating the sewing machines, changing the needles etc according to the thickness of materials then changing it back to their normal calibration; costs of stocking yet another pile of materials.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

That upcharge is quite steep. In before this becomes another thread just arguing about leather

 

[jonbuilder]

Rather than focus on the upcharge Langlitz places on horsehide, I would think in terms of the cost of a Langlitz horsehide jacket in relation to other high-end jacket maker's shinki jackets. I own an early 50s Langlitz horsehide jacket and the leather is more desirable to me than the shinki horsehide on a Real McCoys jacket the passed through my hands a couple of weeks ago

 

[sweetfights]

Rather than focus on the upcharge Langlitz places on horsehide, I would think in terms of the cost of a Langlitz horsehide jacket in relation to other high-end jacket maker's shinki jackets. I own an early 50s Langlitz horsehide jacket and the leather is more desirable to me than the shinki horsehide on a Real McCoys jacket the passed through my hands a couple of weeks ago

I agree. What matters is quality and price comparisons to other high end producers.

 

[navetsea]

both has strong grains, from just the photo probably the swatch has more ridges, while the jacket has more valleys.

 

[Lebowski]

Fit guaranteed or not imho $1200 just for getting horse is quite a ridiculous up charge. How do they justify that?!


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That might mean any of two quite evident things (or even both probably, together):
1. They don't have enough amount of that leather
2. They want not esp much to make jackets from that leather
Anybody might say - it might be more expensive leather, so they should upcharge their jackets made of it, and it'll sound right, but usually it's not enough to be the only reason to cause such high upcharge. Just my opinion.

 

[KissMyMuscle]

Is shinki leather really a premier choice than Horween? Horween purchases 80% of the raw horse hide in the world. Japan only pick the leftover. Japanese leather company also charges horween leather product higher than Shinki leather.

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[Blackadder]

We circle back to "which is the best leather" again? The Horween we often see is a combination tanned oil leather whilst the "shiniki" we often see is a veg tanned leather. They have different characteristics. I prefer shiniki for jacket but hate shiniki or many other veg tanned leather boots. I also like Horween shell cordovan more than Japanese shell. That is my personal preference.
To me, vs can be a simple comparison without naming a winner.
Unfortunately, I don't think we have a sample of Langlitz HH here to compare with so that is why the discussion is mainly on the reasonableness of the upcharge.
Foreign imports are usually more expensive due to many factors such as import tariffs and various other import procedures. A basic cowhide Langlitz Columbia costs USD 3250 on Rakuten Japan.
https://item.rakuten.co.jp/track358/2622/
I don't know how much a Columbia costs in the States now but I would bet it is not more than USD2000.
And yes American goods have certain unexplainable appeal to a lot of Japanese.

 

[Davidm]

Is shinki leather really a premier choice than Horween? Horween purchases 80% of the raw horse hide in the world. Japan only pick the leftover. Japanese leather company also charges horween leather product higher than Shinki leather.

in short, based on in my experience with boots and jackets, shinki is by far better, even few Italian tanneries are better, horween is too overrated.

 

[Davidm]

actually i'm thinking to pull a trigger on 1947 Columbia, most likely in HH, but what i dont understand is how the main zipper is attached to the body, there is like a strip of leather sewn to the jacket with the zip, not sure why they came up with this design. any clues?

 

[Psant25]

actually i'm thinking to pull a trigger on 1947 Columbia, most likely in HH, but what i dont understand is how the main zipper is attached to the body, there is like a strip of leather sewn to the jacket with the zip, not sure why they came up with this design. any clues?

I think that part is folded over on itself and sewn down and creates a more wind proof seam

 

[Colin G]

A basic cowhide Langlitz Columbia costs USD 3250 on Rakuten Japan.
https://item.rakuten.co.jp/track358/2622/
I don't know how much a Columbia costs in the States now but I would bet it is not more than USD2000.
And yes American goods have certain unexplainable appeal to a lot of Japanese.

Langlitz is much cheaper in N America. Standard Langlitz cowhide jacket with some basic extra options ( extra pocket, pinstripes on back or padding) will run about $1300 US give or take. You can buy two cowhide Langlitz jackets for the price of one Langlitz in horsehide. Both of my Langlitz in medium weight cow were around $1200 US ea plus shipping to Canada. Both purchased within the last year (my 2nd should be landing in the next few weeks) so my prices are current.

 

[El Marro]

in short, based on in my experience with boots and jackets, shinki is by far better, even few Italian tanneries are better, horween is too overrated.

This is a pretty bold statement and certain to draw ire from some here. Shinki horsehide is probably my favorite leather at this point so you won’t get any argument from me there.
I would point out though that Horween tans many different animal hides using many different finishes (CXL, Dublin, Essex, Latigo just to name a few). Therefore I think it is too simplistic to say that Horween is overrated. You may not be a big fan of CXL but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t one of the premier tanneries in the world.

 

[Davidm]

You may not be a big fan of CXL but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t one of the premier tanneries in the world.

ok to clarify, as this is based on what i had/ have: CXL - nothing special about this leather except for marketing. combination tanned leather is used and made all around the world for long long time. Different chemicals maybe, during different periods, but still CXL just got better marketing and it seems all for me.
It's even funny, i had a some old soviet leather to examine few years ago, and it was almost the same as CXL, like almost exact.
Essex is nice, but again whats special about it?
Same with latigo (i actually like latigo for boots a lot, more than CXL for sure).
Same with baseball leather etc.
Even quality of cordovan from horween is kinda changing over years, like now i see often a lot of discoloration even on new shoes etc. At the same time shinki develops new colours and finishes, same with Italians.
Shinki, in my case again, based on how do i wear my jackets just ages beautifully and with no issues even in 10 years.
To clarify, i'm not a fanboy, i do like LW hh even tho its chrome tanned, i do like badalassi, i handled langlitz goatskin and very liked it, but when i have to choose a leather for new boots and/or a jacket i will almost never go with Horween, CXL it or smth else, just usually there is better options. For example when i been ordering my role clubs last year, Brian offered me different leathers (actually i dont know if he uses horween CXL or its tanned somewhere else) and for me was a very easy to choose Italian hh over everything else, as it's just feels more durable and more "interesting" leather in terms of grain, texture and feel.
So again, i believe it's purely subjective, based on own experience.

 

[sweetfights]

Langlitz is much cheaper in N America. Standard Langlitz cowhide jacket with some basic extra options ( extra pocket, pinstripes on back or padding) will run about $1300 US give or take. You can buy two cowhide Langlitz jackets for the price of one Langlitz in horsehide. Both of my Langlitz in medium weight cow were around $1200 US ea plus shipping to Canada. Both purchased within the last year (my 2nd should be landing in the next few weeks) so my prices are current.

eager to see photos Colin!!!